Jens Beckert: Democracy won’t beat climate change

Jens, thank you so much for speaking to us this morning.

Yes, good morning.

So we're talking in a week when massive heat waves are settling across Europe.

In London here, we're looking at temperatures in the high 30 degrees.

Records are expected to be broken yet again, as they have been many times before.

It's a reminder that we've known for a long time about the reality of climate change.

We've known what the science predicts.

We've had the warnings.

Why, in your view, doesn't that knowledge lead to the action that is also called for and that we know is necessary to counter the ongoing impacts of climate change?

I think it's the absolutely right observation that we know about climate change.

We also know in principle at least what needs to be done in order to at least limit it.

But societies were not able so far to really make a difference.

Of course, something is happening.

There is an expansion of renewable energy.

There is also, at least in Europe, a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, but the overall global emissions are still going up.

But I would argue, to answer the question that you pose, why this is the case.

then I would first of all say that one needs to look at these structures of our society and concretely one has to look at the incentive structures and power structures that hold for the main players in a society.

And this I would say is the economy and companies as one of them.

It's politics and the political system, but then it is also something that would call society, which means the citizens, but also us as consumers.

And if one looks at these three groups in our society, then one can see that none of these groups has actually interest or the power resources to make a sufficient difference.

And actually, the three groups, I would also argue, they're actually very much aligned in their interests.

And so the damages can be externalized to nature.

Damages that are, on the other hand, advantages for the groups I'm talking about.

In the book, you go into detail and talk about all of these different structures, the economy, the politics, and also then us as consumers.

And I hope we can get into a few of those kind of different things that are all full of fascinating ideas in and of themselves.

Jens, thank you so much for speaking to us this morning.

Yes, good morning.

So we're talking in a week when massive heat waves are settling across Europe.

In London here, we're looking at temperatures in the high 30 degrees.

Records are expected to be broken yet again, as they have been many times before.

It's a reminder that we've known for a long time about the reality of climate change.

We've known what the science predicts.

We've had the warnings.

Why, in your view, doesn't that knowledge lead to the action that is also called for and that we know is necessary to counter the ongoing impacts of climate change?

I think it's the absolutely right observation that we know about climate change.

We also know in principle at least what needs to be done in order to at least limit it.

But societies were not able so far to really make a difference.

Of course, something is happening.

There is an expansion of renewable energy.

There is also, at least in Europe, a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, but the overall global emissions are still going up.

But I would argue, to answer the question that you pose, why this is the case.

then I would first of all say that one needs to look at these structures of our society and concretely one has to look at the incentive structures and power structures that hold for the main players in a society.

And this I would say is the economy and companies as one of them.

It's politics and the political system, but then it is also something that would call society, which means the citizens, but also us as consumers.

And if one looks at these three groups in our society, then one can see that none of these groups has actually interest or the power resources to make a sufficient difference.

And actually, the three groups, I would also argue, they're actually very much aligned in their interests.

And so the damages can be externalized to nature.

Damages that are, on the other hand, advantages for the groups I'm talking about.

In the book, you go into detail and talk about all of these different structures, the economy, the politics, and also then us as consumers.

And I hope we can get into a few of those kind of different things that are all full of fascinating ideas in and of themselves.