208. The Data Is Technical, but the Decision Is Human with Carole Lawson

Programmatic advertising gives us more data, automation, and targeting options than ever. But behind every impression, click, and conversion is a real person whose circumstances, attention, and needs can change. In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker speaks with Carole Lawson, founding partner of Marketstorm, about the relationship between data, technology, AI, and human behavior. Carole shares how her experience in technology, government innovation, behavioral economics, and data science led her into programmatic advertising. She also explains why traders should be careful about overcontrolling campaigns based only on what appears logical inside a DSP. One powerful example involves a luxury bottle of wine purchased at 4 a.m. after the buyer saw an ad while playing Solitaire in Oklahoma. A trader might have excluded that time, location, or environment. The technology, however, recognized that it was the right moment for that specific person. This conversation explores how programmatic professionals can combine human judgment with AI, select stronger audience signals, recognize audience fatigue, and measure performance beyond the last click. ## Key takeaway - The goal is not to choose between human judgment and AI. The goal is to understand what each does best. - Programmatic professionals provide strategy, context, client knowledge, and critical thinking. AI and machine learning can identify behavioral patterns and opportunities that a person may not see. Strong performance happens when those capabilities work together.   Check out the interview on YouTube!    * * *   ## 🧠 About Us: We are Helene Parker Consulting, where programmatic hands on keys buying meet Revenue Growth. We're expanding our work with Independent agencies, media and ad-tech companies through revenue growth, go-to-market support, pipeline development, and sales enablement. We also offer practical programmatic workshops and customized training for teams that want to strengthen their skills, with a trader/buyer lens. Are you or anyone in your network looking for support? Email us helene@heleneparker.com Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides   Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library   * * *   ## ⏱ Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and welcome 00:41 Carole Lawson's career journey 01:27 Moving from technology into data and behavioral economics 03:28 How Marketstorm was created 05:45 "The ad may not have changed, but the person did" 07:23 Remembering the human behind programmatic data 08:25 The unexpected 4 a.m. luxury-wine conversion 09:59 Why excluding overnight hours can hurt performance 11:16 Campaign budget and return 11:34 Focused audiences and negative targeting 13:09 Understanding signals inside custom algorithms 13:54 Researching customers and creating custom audiences 15:17 Primary versus secondary conversions 16:13 Recognizing when an audience becomes stale 17:06 Questions to ask an audience-data partner 18:58 Ordinary browsing versus emerging intent 21:28 Does more precise targeting cost more? 22:59 Intent, influence, demand capture, and attribution 25:00 AI assistants as a new form of search 26:02 Making websites and content readable by AI 27:42 Career advice for programmatic professionals 28:18 Programmatic's role in the marketing ecosystem 29:38 Closing thoughts 29:43 Where to follow Carole's work     * * *   ## 👤 Meet Our Guests: Carolee Lawson - Founding Partner, Chief Innovation Officer, MarketStorm Carole Lawson is a data scientist and founding partner of Marketstorm. For the past 20 years, her work has focused on behavioral economics and the relationship between people and technology, including how human behavior influences technology and how technology shapes human behavior. Before founding Marketstorm, Carole worked in technology for the State of California, where she led a major redesign of the state's websites. She also chaired the Governor's Innovation Council, collaborating with emerging technology companies and exploring how data and technology could improve the delivery of government services. Carole later brought her experience in data, human behavior, and technology into programmatic advertising. Today, she helps organizations use audience intelligence, custom algorithms, and behavioral signals to reach the right people and improve marketing outcomes. Subscribe to her Substack: https://www.thinkwithmarketstorm.com Website: https://marketstorm.ai/  📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroleslawson/      * * *   ## 💻 Meet The Team: ### Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ ### Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/   * * *   ## 🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/   * * *   ## 📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest