202. Mastering Audience Optimization & DSP Transparency with Jenn Ha and Ed Hackney from Pearl Diver

In part two of this special episode of the Programmatic Digest podcast, host Hélène Parker welcomes back Ed and introduces Jenny, the Head of Customer Experience at Pearl Diver  Building on the previous episode's focus on audience discovery, this conversation dives deeply into audience optimization and the critical role of true partnership in ad tech.  Jenny and Ed share insights on the optimal times to introduce new audience segments, highlighting that the best time to test an adjacent audience is actually when current campaigns are already performing well They also discuss their "chameleon" approach to customer service, where data partners deeply embed themselves to support overwhelmed traders who are managing up to 100 campaigns The episode emphasizes the necessity of transparency between buyers and data providers, the realities of onboarding versus optimization timelines, and concludes with valuable career wisdom for programmatic professionals   **In this episode, we cover:** - From Discovery to Optimization: Transitioning from finding your audience to actively optimizing your programmatic campaigns. - The "Chameleon" Approach to Client Services: How true ad-tech partners seamlessly embed themselves into your agency to support overwhelmed traders who are managing up to 100 campaigns. - The Perfect Time to Test New Audiences: Why you shouldn't wait for a campaign to fail before exploring new segments, and why a winning campaign provides the perfect low-risk environment to test. - Why DSP Transparency is Non-Negotiable: The importance of sharing your screen and DSP setup with data partners to prevent overlapping targeting (like double geo-filters) and restrictive parameters. - Onboarding Speed vs. Optimization Patience: Breaking the misconception that setting up a new data partner takes months (it can take just 45 minutes!), while emphasizing the patience required for an audience to actually optimize. - Career Wisdom for Ad-Tech Professionals: Ed and Jenny share the best career advice they've received, including the importance of "always be testing" and why you should "never want to be the smartest person in the room".   ### About Us: We help historically excluded individuals break into programmatic media buying and land jobs they love. Through our Reach and Frequency® program, coaching, and community, we make learning programmatic clear, practical, and welcoming. Join once, stay learning forever. Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides. Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library **🪶 Timestamps and Topics** - Introduction & Guest Background: Welcoming Jenny and Ed - Explaining Ad-Tech to Friends and Family - The "Chameleon" Approach to Client Services - Sales Pitches vs. True Partnerships - The Best Time to Introduce New Audiences - The Critical Need for DSP Transparency - Screen-Sharing for Better Reporting - Onboarding Speed vs. Optimization Time - Final Career Wisdom ### 👤 Meet the Guests: ##### Jenny Ha – Pearl Diver Jenny Ha is the Head of Customer Experience at Pearl Diver. With 10 years of prior experience in traditional advertising client services, she deeply understands the challenges of her agency clients Jenny leads a hands-on team that acts as a "chameleon," embedding directly into clients' daily operations to build audiences and even join sales callsShe champions human connection in a tech-driven era and guides her career by the philosophy that "you never want to be the smartest person in the room," prioritizing continuous learning and transparency. Connect with Jenny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenny-ha-/   ##### Ed Hackney – Pearl Diver Spent 25 years in advertising, including time as a creative director and ECD for Digitas New Zealand. Fascinated by personalizing the customer journey at mass scale, he transitioned into the software and data side of ad tech to help build tools that empower agencies to discover better audience segmentation. Connect with Ed: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nomorepapercuts/    **About Pearl Diver** Pearl Diver is an audience intelligence platform built for the agentic marketing era. It helps marketers discover high-intent audiences, uncover hidden buyer personas through Reality Clusters, and activate real-time audience segments directly in platforms like Meta, Google, TikTok, and leading DSPs. With its dedicated MCP connector, Pearl Diver also brings real-time audience insights into AI workflows, helping marketers make faster, smarter campaign decisions. https://www.pearldiver.io/meet-michael-at-pearl-diver  **🎓 Learn Programmatic:** For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library  Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter  Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/