Sep 1, 2026 · 34 min · 13 segments
Derek Gow is one of the UK’s most ardent and proactive reintroduction specialists. The Guardian calls him ‘the guerrilla rewilder’. Join his impassioned conversation with Isabella Tree as they discuss…
Derek GowGuestIt's very striking, isn't it, when you see almost any area that has cave paintings, and we've seen the cave markings, not the paintings, but the etchings in Portugal.

They're all incidental to these things because these were the animals that were super abundant.

I mean, I can't remember the number of things that the First Nations people used, but it's well up in the hundreds.

And then, of course, the guides will take you in and they'll put an acetate over it and they'll just shine a torch underneath it and all of a sudden this thing just flickers out of the dark.

And the last time I was there, the girl was saying that this might very well have been a worship thing, but you can't see it until somebody holds a pine faggot underneath it and you have watchers that are worshipping it and possibly singing, possibly dancing, maybe even following people who have horned helmets with bison on.
It's very striking, isn't it, when you see almost any area that has cave paintings, and we've seen the cave markings, not the paintings, but the etchings in Portugal.

They're all incidental to these things because these were the animals that were super abundant.

I mean, I can't remember the number of things that the First Nations people used, but it's well up in the hundreds.

And then, of course, the guides will take you in and they'll put an acetate over it and they'll just shine a torch underneath it and all of a sudden this thing just flickers out of the dark.

And the last time I was there, the girl was saying that this might very well have been a worship thing, but you can't see it until somebody holds a pine faggot underneath it and you have watchers that are worshipping it and possibly singing, possibly dancing, maybe even following people who have horned helmets with bison on.
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