464: Sacred Tobacco…Medicine, Not Toxin | Jason Grechanik

Mm-hmm.

It's a very good question.

I, I, I think ultimately these things are very difficult to put into words, one, because we all see the world through our own lens.

Um, and so language, uh, I think is some way to begin to, to touch on something that's universal, but it's always going to be limited in, in, in how I world and how each listener sees the world.

Uh, these understandings and teachings, they're also not always only rational or, or something that can be even put into words.

It can be something somatic or a felt sense or a way of being that, that can be maybe even impossible to put into words.

Uh, I remember after the first time I worked with tobacco through a dieta, I, I couldn't say what had changed or, or what I had learned even.

There was nothing there that I could point to and say, "Oh, like tobacco showed me this," or, "Tobacco taught me that." But one thing that I did see and that I felt was something very profound had shifted, and, and I think those around me also perceived that.

I mean, e- even where I was working then, many people began working with tobacco and, and it wasn't from like me kind of through a gospel or something of the benefits of tobacco, but it was more through, uh, I think a sense that something had shifted.

You know, tobacco, a- as I said, is seen as a teacher, so it is something that allows us to connect to spirit, to source, and to receive very direct teachings, but, but that they're usually also to some degree personal to who we are.

I would say that there are universal qualities that tobacco points towards, and so, you know, if you were to ask 100 people, they would give you different answers, but there would be some, some commonalities.

Um, things like power, strength, clarity, groundedness, um, an ability to see the world as it actually is.

Um, it was often considered a plant of the, the shaman, and the shaman was often considered one who had a foot in both worlds.

And so tobacco, I think it's very unique in this way that allows us to travel into the spirit world, the shamanic world, but also to have a foot in this world and to act as a bridge between those two spaces.

Um, so I know that, that maybe, maybe didn't answer your question completely, but-

Well, what would you say is the difference in how ayahuasca works with you versus tobacco? Like, what would be the difference in the experience of how it initiates you into that spirit world? I mean, I had the hopé before, um, ayahuasca, but I didn't really...

Um, I mean, my first initial experience with both hopé and ayahuasca was interesting because the first dose that I had really didn't, um, impact me in a way, let's just say, that I was expecting.

I'm not saying it didn't impact me, but it wasn't in a way that maybe I was expecting.

The second dose of the ayahuasca that came next was a complete... was just a purge, [chuckles] a very deep purge, um, that was very necessary, I realized, um, later that, that morning.

But for...

I'm just curious as how, like, it interacts with your body and how, like, it kinda pulls you in.

Because when I'm...

For instance, when I'm using both ayahuasca or mushrooms, what I notice with how the medicine works with my body is that physically I can feel the literal matter of my body starting to separate, starting to pull apart, and it's like it's starting to work me and mold me and, and, and open me up physically so that I, I, I almost feel like I'm becoming, in a way, less dense so that there's almost more of me to work with with the energy.

So I'm curious, is it similar with tobacco, or is it a completely different experience?

I, I think that's a, that's a very good way of describing it.