Trevor Muir | Problem Based Learning

In this episode of **The Education Equation**, host Jeremy Singer talks with Trevor Muir—an educator, author, speaker, and founder of Epic PBL. Recorded at College Board's Advanced Placement Annual Conference, this conversation explores how project-based learning (PBL) can address the ongoing relevance crisis in today's classrooms and prepare students for the durable skills needed in an AI world. Trevor shares his journey from a classroom teacher to a leading advocate for "main course" PBL—learning experiences that require students to think critically, collaborate, and solve real-world problems. They discuss the difference between meaningful applied learning and "dessert" projects, how AI can serve as a powerful project-planning partner, and practical ways for AP teachers and school leaders to effectively incorporate and scale PBL while maintaining content mastery. **Key Highlights:** - **Dessert vs. Main Course Projects:** Trevor explains the difference between projects tacked onto the end of a unit (like a model volcano) and projects where a meaningful problem drives the core learning of the subject. - **The Relevance Crisis:** With growing student disengagement, making content relevant through applied learning is critical. Even traditional subjects like calculus and grammar can be grounded in purposeful, real-world problems. - **AI as a Co-Pilot:** While AI brings challenges to the classroom, it can serve as a helpful brainstorming partner for teachers looking to generate authentic, localized project ideas aligned with their standards, while still preserving the student thinking that learning requires. - **PBL in AP Courses:** PBL doesn't mean abandoning direct instruction or lowering expectations. Trevor shares how teachers can gradually introduce problem-solving units into their packed curriculums and why allowing students to grapple with real constraints leads to better outcomes. **Referenced in the Episode:** - Trevor Muir's books: The Epic Classroom, The Collaborative Classroom, and New Teacher Mindset - Launch: Using Design Thinking to Boost Creativity and Bring Out the Maker in Every Student by John Spencer - The National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) 2026 Survey on Top Employee Skills - Lucas Education research on the impact of rigorous PBL in AP US Government and AP Environmental Science **Timestamps:** 00:00 - Show Introduction 01:00 - Meet Trevor Muir 02:00 - What is Project-Based Learning? 03:10 - A Real-World PBL Example: The Refugee Story 05:48 - Trevor's "Aha" Moment with a Hard-to-Reach Student 09:43 - Addressing the Relevance Crisis in Education 15:00 - Dessert vs. Main Course Projects 16:47 - How to Design a Purposeful Project 18:41 - Using AI as a Project Planning Partner 20:00 - The Role of the Teacher in a PBL Classroom 23:53 - PBL in Advanced Placement (AP) Courses 28:47 - Finding the Time and Stealing Ideas: Advice for Teachers 32:48 - How School Leaders Can Support PBL 39:35 - Rapid Fire Questions If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to The Education Equation podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. Visit us at TheEducationEquation.org for more.