Where do Leinster and Ulster go from here?

[upbeat music] Hello, and welcome to the Counterruck Rugby podcast, brought to you by The Irish Times in partnership with Oak Energy.

After Leinster's Champions Cup final defeat to Bordeaux, not to mention Ulster's defeat the previous evening against Montpellier, myself and Gerry Thornley recorded a podcast on Saturday from the San Mamés Stadium in Bilbao.

If you want to listen to that instant lookback at the weekend, that is in your feed.

But joining me today, as usual, at the start of the week for a bit of a more measured take and a look at where the two provinces go from here is former Leinster and Ireland center Gordon D'Arcy.