Jul 8, 2026 · 1 hr · 11 segments
In this episode of the Optimising Human Performance Podcast, Martin sits down with Air Commodore Robin Caine, Head of UK Military Flying Training, to explore the psychology of decision-making under…
Robin CaineGuest
Martin JonesHost
The guy in the backseat who thinks you're going to die and you have to tell him effectively calm down.

Can you explain how do you do that when there's such immense pressure? How do you communicate?

It's a great question because I think you sometimes come back to these frameworks that help when your brain is saturated.

So not only did Aviate, Navigate, Communicate save my life, Trust the Instruments saved my life, but Clarity of Communication, whether you're Patrick Lencioni talking about business or Clarity of Communication on operations on the ground, on the sea or in the air, are all absolutely the same.

So if you're going to say something and you don't have much time, you've got to get the most important bit first.

So if you're about to shoot at me, I don't want my wingman to go, Rob, there's an enemy behind you, break right.

And then control, where do we go next? So when I was in the cockpit trying to talk that situation into a fully developed idea, the first thing was to go, action, I've got the jet, we're safe.

So the only two sentences that came from front of the cockpit to the back of the cockpit were, I'm in control of the jet, we're safe.

And then communication to my friend MSJ in the other jet, we're out of formation, so you communicate that.

And to air traffic control, you say, we're steady level at 2,000 feet heading this direction.

And now those words are things that the navigator understood and could then come back into more slow, realistic, analytical thinking because his emotional side had already been activated and needed to be talked out.

You are life and death at that moment where your body is screaming at you that you think you're going to die.

A lot of the things that people think are going to work just don't work because they haven't trained them properly.

The guy in the backseat who thinks you're going to die and you have to tell him effectively calm down.

Can you explain how do you do that when there's such immense pressure? How do you communicate?

It's a great question because I think you sometimes come back to these frameworks that help when your brain is saturated.

So not only did Aviate, Navigate, Communicate save my life, Trust the Instruments saved my life, but Clarity of Communication, whether you're Patrick Lencioni talking about business or Clarity of Communication on operations on the ground, on the sea or in the air, are all absolutely the same.

So if you're going to say something and you don't have much time, you've got to get the most important bit first.

So if you're about to shoot at me, I don't want my wingman to go, Rob, there's an enemy behind you, break right.

And then control, where do we go next? So when I was in the cockpit trying to talk that situation into a fully developed idea, the first thing was to go, action, I've got the jet, we're safe.

So the only two sentences that came from front of the cockpit to the back of the cockpit were, I'm in control of the jet, we're safe.

And then communication to my friend MSJ in the other jet, we're out of formation, so you communicate that.

And to air traffic control, you say, we're steady level at 2,000 feet heading this direction.

And now those words are things that the navigator understood and could then come back into more slow, realistic, analytical thinking because his emotional side had already been activated and needed to be talked out.

You are life and death at that moment where your body is screaming at you that you think you're going to die.

A lot of the things that people think are going to work just don't work because they haven't trained them properly.
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