Sep 26, 2026 · 1 hr 8 min · 10 segments
Claire Stapleton is the author of Don't Be Evil, Bad Bosses, Fake Promises, and My Escape from Big Tech. Claire joins Karen to discuss her book and her journey from earnest college grad to seasoned…
Claire StapletonGuest
Karen DufilhoHost
I know that empathy is, I think it's important to this group, and I hope people that I involve in my life, but it certainly is de-emphasized, it seems, in a corporate way these days.
And so... that contrast, it seems like the way we sort of, to me, want to naturally be is empathetic and that now there's this de-empathy vibe and flavor running through.
It would seem big tech, or at least it's getting the microphone quite a bit right now.
Do you see this book as maybe a counter to that or just exposing that? Or do you even feel like that's important
to try and I don't know, highlights in empathy? Empathy as a sort of like institutional concept?
Well, I guess, but I mean, okay, a better question maybe is like, can it be? Can it be? Can it survive?
Yes, I think, you know, like it was really interesting because I kind of riff in the book about how Creative Lab was becoming obsessed with empathy.
It was like, but it was the really, it was a weird perversion of the word.
It was like, you know, to some extent it was talking about a creative quality that when you, you know, that, that, you know, broadcasting the company's humanity, you know, in an authentic way or something like that.
But, you know, it also was being used to sell Google products and sort of specifically by that, like they were doing these ads that Google, you know, does a Super Bowl ad like this every year.
But it was basically like a really human story about using Google products, you know, over the course of a lifetime and you're tearing up and it's, you know, someone's wife's dying or losing her memory or it's a kid growing up.
And, you know, it's really hard for me not to look at that cynically now and be like, yeah, sure, that thing is oozing with empathy for, you know, and all sorts of different, you know, ways you could define that.
But it's also about trying to bring people emotionally into the technology or rather Trojan horse the technology into people's lives and make them feel like Google is so kind of quirky and friendly.
I know that empathy is, I think it's important to this group, and I hope people that I involve in my life, but it certainly is de-emphasized, it seems, in a corporate way these days.
And so... that contrast, it seems like the way we sort of, to me, want to naturally be is empathetic and that now there's this de-empathy vibe and flavor running through.
It would seem big tech, or at least it's getting the microphone quite a bit right now.
Do you see this book as maybe a counter to that or just exposing that? Or do you even feel like that's important
to try and I don't know, highlights in empathy? Empathy as a sort of like institutional concept?
Well, I guess, but I mean, okay, a better question maybe is like, can it be? Can it be? Can it survive?
Yes, I think, you know, like it was really interesting because I kind of riff in the book about how Creative Lab was becoming obsessed with empathy.
It was like, but it was the really, it was a weird perversion of the word.
It was like, you know, to some extent it was talking about a creative quality that when you, you know, that, that, you know, broadcasting the company's humanity, you know, in an authentic way or something like that.
But, you know, it also was being used to sell Google products and sort of specifically by that, like they were doing these ads that Google, you know, does a Super Bowl ad like this every year.
But it was basically like a really human story about using Google products, you know, over the course of a lifetime and you're tearing up and it's, you know, someone's wife's dying or losing her memory or it's a kid growing up.
And, you know, it's really hard for me not to look at that cynically now and be like, yeah, sure, that thing is oozing with empathy for, you know, and all sorts of different, you know, ways you could define that.
But it's also about trying to bring people emotionally into the technology or rather Trojan horse the technology into people's lives and make them feel like Google is so kind of quirky and friendly.
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