Sep 21, 2026 · 1 hr 20 min · 14 segments
The rise, fall and rise of the most nonsensical conspiracy theory we've ever heard. Thanks to Gregg Gonsalves for helping us fact-check this episode! **Support us:**…
Michael HobbesHost
Aubrey GordonHostSo to tell the story of AIDS denialism, we have to tell a little bit of the story of AIDS.
This is mostly based on two books, one of which is called Denying AIDS by Seth Kalichman and another called Impure Science by Steven Epstein.
Everyone agrees that in the early years of AIDS there was a lot of, like, debate over what was causing it.
So the first reports appear in 1981 of men who have this, like, very strange cancer, and then you start getting more and more reports of, like, gay men dying of this weird thing, and it presents very differently.
Yes, gay-related immune deficiency.
Although even earlier than that it was, it was literally called, like, gay cancer in the press.
So there's lots of theories on what was causing it, basically because, like, it was just so mysterious and weird.
One of the theories was that sperm in your butt reduces immune function.
Another explanation was poppers, which are these, like, inhalants that men take for muscle relaxant.
It, like, makes anal sex better.
This was, like, one of the, like, fairly prominent early explanations because a lot of the people that got AIDS had been using poppers.
Apparently, uh, poppers do have, like, a slightly immunosuppressing effect, and I guess they're, like, really bad for you.
I was, like, reading the Cleveland Clinic website this morning.
But because they're a vasodilator, they had been given to heart disease patients for years, and none of them got AIDS.
So that gets discarded pretty quickly.
I actually didn't know that they had any, like, legitimate use.
[laughs] I thought they were, like, just for gay men because they sell them as room deodorizers-
...
So to tell the story of AIDS denialism, we have to tell a little bit of the story of AIDS.
This is mostly based on two books, one of which is called Denying AIDS by Seth Kalichman and another called Impure Science by Steven Epstein.
Everyone agrees that in the early years of AIDS there was a lot of, like, debate over what was causing it.
So the first reports appear in 1981 of men who have this, like, very strange cancer, and then you start getting more and more reports of, like, gay men dying of this weird thing, and it presents very differently.
Yes, gay-related immune deficiency.
Although even earlier than that it was, it was literally called, like, gay cancer in the press.
So there's lots of theories on what was causing it, basically because, like, it was just so mysterious and weird.
One of the theories was that sperm in your butt reduces immune function.
Another explanation was poppers, which are these, like, inhalants that men take for muscle relaxant.
It, like, makes anal sex better.
This was, like, one of the, like, fairly prominent early explanations because a lot of the people that got AIDS had been using poppers.
Apparently, uh, poppers do have, like, a slightly immunosuppressing effect, and I guess they're, like, really bad for you.
I was, like, reading the Cleveland Clinic website this morning.
But because they're a vasodilator, they had been given to heart disease patients for years, and none of them got AIDS.
So that gets discarded pretty quickly.
I actually didn't know that they had any, like, legitimate use.
[laughs] I thought they were, like, just for gay men because they sell them as room deodorizers-
...
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