How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality
May 24, 2026 · 1 hr 3 min · 14 segments
We’ve all done things we’re not proud of. But why do some people seem to struggle so much more than others when it comes to avoiding harmful behavior? And what does it mean for how we think about…
Kathryn Paige HardenGuestDave DeStenoHostWe've all done things we're not proud of, things that were selfish, harmful to ourselves or to others, and most of us have probably also struggled with what to make of that.
Do our mistakes make us bad people? Should we feel guilty? And if so, for how long? Or should we be focusing instead on how to make things right? These are questions religion has been wrestling with for millennia because they go right to the heart of one of our biggest struggles as humans, figuring out how to live with each other and with ourselves.
A few seasons back, we sat down with writer Elizabeth Oldfield, who made the case that the concept of sin isn't really about condemnation or shame.
It can actually be a useful tool for recognizing the ways we fall short and for finding a path back toward living in connection.
That can be a powerful lens through which to view our own lives, but when we widen it, a whole other set of questions comes into focus.
Why do we fall short in such different ways? And why does it seem to be so much harder for some people to be good than for others? When it comes to moral behavior, we tend to focus a lot on how people were raised and on the individual choices they make.
We have a much harder time making sense of how biology and genetics factor into the equation.
So on this episode, we're rethinking sin again, this time with the help of Katherine Page Harden, Professor of Psychology and Director of the Developmental Behavior Genetics Lab at the University of Texas at Austin.
Page is the author of a new book, Original Sin: On the Genetics of Vice, the Problem of Blame, and the Future of Forgiveness.
She and I sat down to discuss religion's influence on modern scientific thinking about harmful behaviors, what genetics can actually tell us about ourselves, and how it should change the way we think about accountability and repair.
I'm Dave Desteno, and I hope you'll enjoy this special episode of How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality.
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We've all done things we're not proud of, things that were selfish, harmful to ourselves or to others, and most of us have probably also struggled with what to make of that.
Do our mistakes make us bad people? Should we feel guilty? And if so, for how long? Or should we be focusing instead on how to make things right? These are questions religion has been wrestling with for millennia because they go right to the heart of one of our biggest struggles as humans, figuring out how to live with each other and with ourselves.
A few seasons back, we sat down with writer Elizabeth Oldfield, who made the case that the concept of sin isn't really about condemnation or shame.
It can actually be a useful tool for recognizing the ways we fall short and for finding a path back toward living in connection.
That can be a powerful lens through which to view our own lives, but when we widen it, a whole other set of questions comes into focus.
Why do we fall short in such different ways? And why does it seem to be so much harder for some people to be good than for others? When it comes to moral behavior, we tend to focus a lot on how people were raised and on the individual choices they make.
We have a much harder time making sense of how biology and genetics factor into the equation.
So on this episode, we're rethinking sin again, this time with the help of Katherine Page Harden, Professor of Psychology and Director of the Developmental Behavior Genetics Lab at the University of Texas at Austin.
Page is the author of a new book, Original Sin: On the Genetics of Vice, the Problem of Blame, and the Future of Forgiveness.
She and I sat down to discuss religion's influence on modern scientific thinking about harmful behaviors, what genetics can actually tell us about ourselves, and how it should change the way we think about accountability and repair.
I'm Dave Desteno, and I hope you'll enjoy this special episode of How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality.