Dr Bill Kirkup CBE

Hello and a warm welcome to this edition of In The Loop, the podcast for those who are interested in the worlds of health and social care.

I'm Neil Dixon, a former broadcaster and health leader, and joining me as ever is Roy Lilley, one-time NHS chair and prolific and terrific commentator.

Good morning.

Thank you very much, Neil.

So hello, everybody.

Today, we're doing something we've not done before.

We've invited a guest back into the loop to explore and amalgamate to share his extensive experience in chairing maternity inquiries and he gave us a fascinating insight into his perspective on what they can and cannot achieve.

In particular, he highlighted their limitations in producing recommendations that would transform practice.

Since then, Bill has been involved at national level as the government and the other maternity chair, Donna Ockenden, have also continued to grapple with the seemingly endless scandals in maternity units up and down England.

But then just as Lady Amos produced her national review for the government, Bill announced he would not be taking any further part in the review because the team had decided to remove references to the potential dangers of pursuing natural childbirth at all costs.

We felt it would be a good idea to revisit the maternity debate with Bill to understand this aspect, but also to see if we can get a better understanding as to why so many units around the country have failed the women and their babies that they're charged with looking after.

Hello and a warm welcome to this edition of In The Loop, the podcast for those who are interested in the worlds of health and social care.

I'm Neil Dixon, a former broadcaster and health leader, and joining me as ever is Roy Lilley, one-time NHS chair and prolific and terrific commentator.

Good morning.

Thank you very much, Neil.

So hello, everybody.

Today, we're doing something we've not done before.

We've invited a guest back into the loop to explore and amalgamate to share his extensive experience in chairing maternity inquiries and he gave us a fascinating insight into his perspective on what they can and cannot achieve.

In particular, he highlighted their limitations in producing recommendations that would transform practice.

Since then, Bill has been involved at national level as the government and the other maternity chair, Donna Ockenden, have also continued to grapple with the seemingly endless scandals in maternity units up and down England.

But then just as Lady Amos produced her national review for the government, Bill announced he would not be taking any further part in the review because the team had decided to remove references to the potential dangers of pursuing natural childbirth at all costs.

We felt it would be a good idea to revisit the maternity debate with Bill to understand this aspect, but also to see if we can get a better understanding as to why so many units around the country have failed the women and their babies that they're charged with looking after.