Jun 16, 2026 · 1 hr 11 min · 18 segments
On episode 13 of Data Renegades, CL Kao sits down with Josh Wills to explore how AI agents are reshaping software engineering, data science, and data infrastructure. They discuss verification…
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So, yeah, I recall, like, I think there were times that we were told that programs are, well, data and code, right? And I think you were talking about kind of what's the balance in between them or, like, where the dials are, right? We used to be, like, well, it's a lot more code and then data is kind of more uniform and...
We've now like used, we've generated a bunch of code that consumes a bunch of data.
Like we've, oh God, what have we done? That's like a fairly good perspective on it actually, right? Yeah.
Like we've taken like kind of the Lisp philosophy of like data is code and code is data and sort of like turned the dial up to not even 11, like 111 or something like that at this point.
So, yeah, I recall, like, I think there were times that we were told that programs are, well, data and code, right? And I think you were talking about kind of what's the balance in between them or, like, where the dials are, right? We used to be, like, well, it's a lot more code and then data is kind of more uniform and...
We've now like used, we've generated a bunch of code that consumes a bunch of data.
Like we've, oh God, what have we done? That's like a fairly good perspective on it actually, right? Yeah.
Like we've taken like kind of the Lisp philosophy of like data is code and code is data and sort of like turned the dial up to not even 11, like 111 or something like that at this point.
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