Aug 25, 2026 · 34 min · 9 segments
In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 5 of *Likable Leader*, unpacking what it actually means to support and invest in the people you lead. Jason shares the story of…
love the, the, the tension you talk about, about like it bears to talk about it and yet proud to talk about it.
And I think if you, you know, if you were to, to read it, uh, you would understand, because the title of it, you're like, what are these guys really talking about? And then when you get into it, you're like, oh, my word, this is practical, like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, especially on the reread, to your point, going back and reading it and the practical application, which I think is our bent anyways.
But I think if you're listening, watching right now, you're like, God, is this book for me? And I think if you lead paid staff or volunteers to And you're like, how do I, I want to lead people that they love to follow and they give their very best.
Maybe the question is like, what are you giving to them? And I love that's one of the things that we're talking about today is really something that you can give to them that is super, super helpful.
And it's not, you know, I mean, I think that our goal every time that we write a chapter is that we don't want to write what people expect us to write.
But we really go a lot deeper than that in this chapter about how do you support and invest in your team.
And the starting one, and this is, I mean, this is something that's like, it's kind of simple, but it's not, is that let people use their systems.
And I probably, I think as I was reading, rereading this chapter and this and the next chapter, actually, I feel like it all comes down to letting people be rock stars.
Rockstar is not in the like egotistical sense, in the prima donna sense, but like let them kill it at the jobs that you ask them to do.
So that means giving them the tools where like, man, they're just going to kill it.
They're going to do a phenomenal job at their job because we gave them this resource or this tool or we let them use the tool that they prefer to use.
big topic in the chapters the idea is like we we often like to fit people into our systems instead of letting people embrace their own systems i mean the simplest one of this is like uh we do this a lot of times with sunday socials we we bring in a designer we like hey you need to fit into the rigid structure of like photoshop you need to use photoshop because everyone on our team uses photoshop and it's frustrating because some people will use like affinity or canva sorry this is like really technical but like they'll use different programs right We're like, sorry, we actually need you to use our rigid system because that's the product we deliver to the customer.
But like a lot of times I think we like, Hey, you're going to need to use a Mac.
If you work on staff at our church, are you going to use Photoshop? Are you going to need to use whatever system it is that we use makes it easier for it.
But like, sometimes I think we don't really support people in the things that they're best at because it just makes it easier for the organization.
And when I think about this chapter, support and equip, the idea, if you lead again, staff, paid staff, volunteers, it's this.
love the, the, the tension you talk about, about like it bears to talk about it and yet proud to talk about it.
And I think if you, you know, if you were to, to read it, uh, you would understand, because the title of it, you're like, what are these guys really talking about? And then when you get into it, you're like, oh, my word, this is practical, like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, especially on the reread, to your point, going back and reading it and the practical application, which I think is our bent anyways.
But I think if you're listening, watching right now, you're like, God, is this book for me? And I think if you lead paid staff or volunteers to And you're like, how do I, I want to lead people that they love to follow and they give their very best.
Maybe the question is like, what are you giving to them? And I love that's one of the things that we're talking about today is really something that you can give to them that is super, super helpful.
And it's not, you know, I mean, I think that our goal every time that we write a chapter is that we don't want to write what people expect us to write.
But we really go a lot deeper than that in this chapter about how do you support and invest in your team.
And the starting one, and this is, I mean, this is something that's like, it's kind of simple, but it's not, is that let people use their systems.
And I probably, I think as I was reading, rereading this chapter and this and the next chapter, actually, I feel like it all comes down to letting people be rock stars.
Rockstar is not in the like egotistical sense, in the prima donna sense, but like let them kill it at the jobs that you ask them to do.
So that means giving them the tools where like, man, they're just going to kill it.
They're going to do a phenomenal job at their job because we gave them this resource or this tool or we let them use the tool that they prefer to use.
big topic in the chapters the idea is like we we often like to fit people into our systems instead of letting people embrace their own systems i mean the simplest one of this is like uh we do this a lot of times with sunday socials we we bring in a designer we like hey you need to fit into the rigid structure of like photoshop you need to use photoshop because everyone on our team uses photoshop and it's frustrating because some people will use like affinity or canva sorry this is like really technical but like they'll use different programs right We're like, sorry, we actually need you to use our rigid system because that's the product we deliver to the customer.
But like a lot of times I think we like, Hey, you're going to need to use a Mac.
If you work on staff at our church, are you going to use Photoshop? Are you going to need to use whatever system it is that we use makes it easier for it.
But like, sometimes I think we don't really support people in the things that they're best at because it just makes it easier for the organization.
And when I think about this chapter, support and equip, the idea, if you lead again, staff, paid staff, volunteers, it's this.
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