Jun 1, 2026 · 1 hr 13 min · 11 segments
Dennis McKenna sits down with journalist Mattha Busby to discuss the evolving world of psychedelics, including ayahuasca, ibogaine, 5-MeO-DMT, coca policy, drug reform, and the risks and realities…
Dennis McKennaHostMattha BusbyGuestNo entities detected.
Uh, you mentioned that you have an article coming out in Rolling Stone, uh, pretty soon about an ayahuasca facilitator almost getting stabbed to death by a participant at a retreat in Florida.
Well, I am very nosy, and l- little by little I think I'm getting sort of better at being nosy, but discreetly.
[chuckles] Um, and perhaps kind of do- doing it with maybe more sort of, you know, qualified risk to kind of make, make the whole story a bit more exciting these days.
Um, but yeah, I mean, this, this story with the ayahuasca ceremony, it actually came out a week ago now.
I think when I sent that over to you, we were just preparing the podcast a month or two ago.
Um, and yeah, the-- it's unclear exactly if the chap was really trying to exorcize this guy's demons-
He says that he wasn't using h- this sort of like new Tibetan cupping method, which he had used with mushrooms.
Um, so using, you know, cupping like before massage, and then when the blood comes to the surface, piercing it with some kind of dagger to exorcize the demons.
He says he wasn't using that method, but he was using a more kind of palatable hypno-coaching method and, you know, th- this poor chap's demons allegedly came to the surface and, you know, he went completely haywire.
I mean, he stabbed Julio five times and, and Julio almost lost his thumb grabbing the knife from him, and it turned into a huge, massive brawl on a, on a lawn in Palm Beach.
And in the end, you know, the, the defendant, he, he got house arrest in a, in a case in January that, that just got concluded.
Uh, you mentioned that you have an article coming out in Rolling Stone, uh, pretty soon about an ayahuasca facilitator almost getting stabbed to death by a participant at a retreat in Florida.
Well, I am very nosy, and l- little by little I think I'm getting sort of better at being nosy, but discreetly.
[chuckles] Um, and perhaps kind of do- doing it with maybe more sort of, you know, qualified risk to kind of make, make the whole story a bit more exciting these days.
Um, but yeah, I mean, this, this story with the ayahuasca ceremony, it actually came out a week ago now.
I think when I sent that over to you, we were just preparing the podcast a month or two ago.
Um, and yeah, the-- it's unclear exactly if the chap was really trying to exorcize this guy's demons-
He says that he wasn't using h- this sort of like new Tibetan cupping method, which he had used with mushrooms.
Um, so using, you know, cupping like before massage, and then when the blood comes to the surface, piercing it with some kind of dagger to exorcize the demons.
He says he wasn't using that method, but he was using a more kind of palatable hypno-coaching method and, you know, th- this poor chap's demons allegedly came to the surface and, you know, he went completely haywire.
I mean, he stabbed Julio five times and, and Julio almost lost his thumb grabbing the knife from him, and it turned into a huge, massive brawl on a, on a lawn in Palm Beach.
And in the end, you know, the, the defendant, he, he got house arrest in a, in a case in January that, that just got concluded.
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