Challenging the Untouchable Leader
She confronted fear before understanding its source
Sep 17, 2026 · 21 min · 12 segments
In today’s episode, Bob ’n Joyce take on a question that has followed us throughout our careers: Where can you do your best and boldest OD work—from inside an organization or from the outside? We’ve…
Bob StapletonHost
Joyce Wilson-SanfordHostI was thinking quite a bit about, because occasionally I hear from former CEOs and I've heard from a couple recently.
I said, why did you ever let us do that? And first of all, the response was we didn't let you because you tended, meaning us, those of us in OD, to understand the business.
Before you made a suggestion or that we could amplify it or minimize whatever needed.
I loved working internally because you could go out with your basket and pick up vibes or needs for the business.
And I'm thinking then, too, of the external OD people who usually have an approach or a product that they are really good in.
And that we need to be careful with bringing into fits with the organization and not just buy a product.
And I've known good results from that and I've known bad results from that.
What I love about OD interventions, we can talk more about that, is it grows the internal talent.
I was thinking quite a bit about, because occasionally I hear from former CEOs and I've heard from a couple recently.
I said, why did you ever let us do that? And first of all, the response was we didn't let you because you tended, meaning us, those of us in OD, to understand the business.
Before you made a suggestion or that we could amplify it or minimize whatever needed.
I loved working internally because you could go out with your basket and pick up vibes or needs for the business.
And I'm thinking then, too, of the external OD people who usually have an approach or a product that they are really good in.
And that we need to be careful with bringing into fits with the organization and not just buy a product.
And I've known good results from that and I've known bad results from that.
What I love about OD interventions, we can talk more about that, is it grows the internal talent.
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3 of 9
Challenging the Untouchable Leader
She confronted fear before understanding its source
When Consultants Disable Leaders
A bad partnership can quietly weaken organizations
The CEO’s Unspoken Rule
Bold work required protecting the CEO’s credibility
+6 more clips · 8 min 26 sec of audio in all
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