Apophatic Mysticism and the Limits of Metaphysics with Jussi Jylkkä

Awesome.

Okay.

So that's a lot to, to unpack.

But I'm curious, like when you mentioned that first experience that occurred spontaneously, was that mostly like a philosophical insight in the same way that you might have a normal philosophical insight in terms of phenomenology of, oh, now I understand this and it just happens to have all these huge philosophical and existential consequences, or was it actually like a proper mystical experience in the terms of the classical phenomenology like william james and so on let's say and then that based on that then you had the philosophical insight

it wasn't the philosophical insight because philosophical insights are conceptual and this was not conceptual so there are two kinds of insights in my opinion the conceptual or cognitive insights as you might might say like things are like the aha moments like which cognitive psychology Studies like Ruben Laukkonen studies these kinds of insights.

And these do occur under psychedelics.

And cannabis is a good example how it can produce like a machine gun, like a series of great insights.

and which are mainly cognitive insights.

They are conceptual.

You can write them down easily because they are conceptual.

And then afterwards, when you have sobered up, you can go through them and take out the best ones and throw

away

the bad ones.

So they are conceptual as in problem solving.

When you see the solution to a problem, that's often a conceptual insight.

And in this case, because it was like things going like this Copernican shift, I had always thought that the material, the physical is fundamental and I thought that I know what the physical is because I have always liked physics and I thought that the physical is what physics says it is.

But I didn't realize that physics is just abstractions and models and the physical itself can be something quite different from what the descriptions say, because the descriptions are like different.

It's the pipe painting, the treasury of images.

This is not a pipe.

And it's trivial.

It's completely trivial.

But when you see it, then it's no longer trivial.

It shifts the whole worldview upside down.

So in retrospect, it was like full mystical.

It had all the mystical aspects.