Zenica

This is the Republika Srpska entity's budgets.

But those budgets are drawn from all Bosnian taxpayers, including those who live in the federation because of the way the distribution tax system, the indirect taxation authority, as it's called, is set up, right? So as you said, you literally have, you know, an average person in Sarajevo or Zenica or whatever, Stola, it's indirectly funding lobbying efforts whose chief ask and this is literally in the lobbying contracts.

This is not us, you know, guessing.

This is literally what's written in these American lobbying contracts advocating for the secession of the IRS and socializing that idea among American policymakers, i.e. getting American policymakers to understand and support the demands of these not just Russian but also Chinese aligned actors in Banja Luka.

I recognize her from the festival schedule.

A young woman from Sarajevo who has painted in Tuzla and Zenica.

She wipes her brush on her jeans and steps back, and the crowd claps again.

There is a particular joy in watching art happen in public, in real time, and this city, which has so much scar tissue, keeps choosing color.

I'm, and I've been to, I told you before, I've been to Bosnia.

I've been to Zenica to watch out.

Mm.

Mm.

For all our new viewers in, in Bosnia, I've been to Bosnia.

I've been to Zenica.

What a place that.

We had a great time there.

In this episode, we're focusing on what it's like to leave when a country is in conflict, when you are forced out and you have to go through a very painful journey to get to somewhere which is really safe for you.

Ivana Sterbac Alfonso was only five to six years old living in a village outside a moderately large town in middle Bosnia called Zenica.

I'm joined by Ivana and I'll tell you where she ended up because we need to talk about that now.

She ended up finally living in Australia on the Gold Coast.

In the 1990s, as I said, the region here fell into what can only be politely called ultimate chaos.

We'll be talking about that throughout the episode.

But back before the former Yugoslavia actually broke up and tore itself apart, There you are as a young girl living in Zenica.

So what do you still have as vivid memories for you of that time before the war as a child in Zenica?