And then we'll come to the book.

Yeah.

And that's, that's a great point that spirituality is on the rise in the Western world.

Um, and this, this interest in spirituality, but still people balk at the church.

And I'm curious about that.

Um, I think a lot of it is preconceptions, which is why in the book I talk a lot about, well, maybe you've heard it said that Jesus is this way or the church is this way.

Um, It reminds me of recently, I had a funny experience.

Do you think we should be doing more of that as Christians anyway, irrespective of just the way the culture is going?