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William Baumol

William Baumol

American economistWikipedia

Search complete. 14 mentions across 11 episodes found for "William Baumol".

Sep 15, 2026

Derek ThompsonHOST
52:43
How many data centers do you have to build for 10%, um, uh, annualized growth? It's hard to build houses in parts of this country.
Derek ThompsonHOST
52:50
How many physical structures do you need for 10% annualized growth? The implications even for something like Baumol's cost disease, if you have productivity growth that is so massive in the digital economy, if the overall economy is growing at 5 to 10%, like, doesn't that imply that, like, m- movie tickets and concert tickets and, like, restaurant meals are seeing just absolutely berserk inflation because we have to increase the wages of less productive workers to keep up with the productivity of the rest of the economy? Like, you're talking about a level of societal change that I think would be, in some cases, quite wrenching and extremely unpopular.
Derek ThompsonHOST
53:30
So I tell them, like, if you want to be optimistic, like actually optimistic about this technology, you want it to add half a percent, a half a percentage point of GDP growth on an annualized basis.
Derek ThompsonHOST
53:40
That is the Goldilocks spot of America's getting richer, but the world isn't transforming so quickly that we get some kind of, you know, um, what is it called? You know, Butlerian Jihad that, that rises up against, uh, AI.
Maxime Desmarais-TremblayGUEST
20:38
And after World War II, he came back to university, went to graduate school at Princeton.
Maxime Desmarais-TremblayGUEST
20:45
And when he finished his PhD in 1950, he enrolled into a seminar by William Baumol at Princeton.
Maxime Desmarais-TremblayGUEST
20:54
where he would read contemporary economists.
Maxime Desmarais-TremblayGUEST
20:57
So he read apparently John Hicks' Value and Capital, Paul Samuelson's Foundations, a bit of Valhalla's Elements of Pure Economics, but also the kind of new stuff that was coming out of Princeton, John von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern's Theory of Game.
Patrick BoyleHOST
14:35
They are the same problem.
Patrick BoyleHOST
14:37
To understand why government deficits are expanding at such a rapid pace, we have to look back to the 1960s, when an economist named William Baumol asked a fairly simple question.
Patrick BoyleHOST
14:50
He wanted to understand why a string quartet playing Beethoven should be paid any more today than they were a hundred years earlier.
Patrick BoyleHOST
14:59
The instruments, he argued, exactly the same.
Paul MullerHOST
42:50
No, I love that.
Paul MullerHOST
42:51
Um, have you, have you heard of Baumol's cost disease?
Sol RashidiGUEST
42:54
No.
Paul MullerHOST
42:54
Not...
Andrew HeatonHOST
57:05
That's going to be a thing.
Andrew HeatonHOST
57:06
And then there's also another phenomena that occurs that's a little bit more complex to explain, but it's called Baumol's cost disease.
Andrew HeatonHOST
57:14
And it basically means that as our society gets more affluent, stuff that involves one-on-one interpersonal attention that can't be automated becomes more expensive, which means that college professors are probably going to become more expensive as time goes on.
Andrew HeatonHOST
57:27
So there's a lot of things that are going to be hitting universities all at once.
Lorena RuizNARRATOR
3:48
And Baldwin showed the digital revolution made services tradable.
Lorena RuizNARRATOR
3:53
Work now travels by fiber optic, not only by container, which retires Baumol's old cost disease for precisely the industrial digital services we are talking about.
Lorena RuizNARRATOR
4:04
walk the links as you would walk the plant engineering and design from bill to print to design in mexico since every design center anchors salaries three to four times factory level and makes the investment far harder to relocate industrial digital services embedded software digital twins predictive maintenance industrial cyber security Thousands of Mexican plants must digitalize to stay competitive.
Lorena RuizNARRATOR
4:34
And whether Mexican firms or foreign integrators capture that market is being decided right now.
Jacob MorganHOST
38:45
So they're different.
Jacob MorganHOST
38:47
And the really interesting here, in the nineteen sixties, there was an economist named, uh, William Baumol, and he found something interesting about a string quartet.
Jacob MorganHOST
38:57
He says it takes four musicians the same amount of time to play a Beethoven quartet today as it did in eighteen hundred.
Jacob MorganHOST
39:04
You cannot get more efficient at playing the notes.
Jacob MorganHOST
39:07
But those musicians still need wages that keep up with the rest of the economy, or they'll go do something else.
Jacob MorganHOST
39:14
So the price of live music rises relatively to everything else, forever.
Jacob MorganHOST
39:20
Baumol called this cost disease.
Jacob MorganHOST
39:24
So think about this.
Luis GaricanoGUEST
63:33
Let, let me just be, be a bit more precise on relational work.
Luis GaricanoGUEST
63:37
So one thing that we didn't discuss, and that has to do a lot with Jevons and, and Baumol, and that has to do a lot with this, with this slide, is, um, the expansion of the Baumol economy, the idea that Baumol economy is not your enemy, but your friend.
Luis GaricanoGUEST
63:54
So let me be precise on this.
Luis GaricanoGUEST
63:57
Um, as cognition gets automated and many of this cognitive w-work, uh, in... especially in this part, uh, starts to be too abundant, and as a result gets to zero value, um, ev-eventually it gets inelastic and eventually, um, the value, the value goes, uh...
Luis GaricanoGUEST
66:54
From making the beds, to serving you a steak, to helping you up the mountain, whatever.
Luis GaricanoGUEST
66:59
All the jobs were there.
Luis GaricanoGUEST
67:01
So as this, uh, economy, the Baumol effect, which is that all this low productivity gain work becomes a larger share of the economy, and as a result, we are actually in a sense generating all this new work, uh, for humans.
Luis GaricanoGUEST
67:21
Um, so in conclusion, I would say if you think from a macro perspective of our book, which is what we do in the last section, um, I would say from a production side, tier one automates, tier two augments.
Chad JonesGUEST
8:00
So the key assumption is when we automate, there's some stuff we've automated in the past, there's some, some stuff that labor's still doing.
Chad JonesGUEST
8:08
Among the things that labor is still doing, we tend to automate the tasks that have high labor costs rather than low labor costs, okay? And equivalently, we tend to automate the things that labor's bad at first rather than labor's good at, and this will be related to something called Baumol-Tobin paradox.
Chad JonesGUEST
8:24
So you'll see that assumption.
Chad JonesGUEST
8:26
Um, fortunately, I think it's testable, so we don't test it, but someone could test it.
Paul LeBlancGUEST
19:44
We don't value humanity in a sense in our workforce.
Matthew RaskoffHOST
19:47
So what about Baumol's cost disease, which says that those are exactly the jobs, because they don't have productivity gains, whose costs will always go up faster than inflation, faster than overall costs.
Matthew RaskoffHOST
20:00
And therefore, they will always become uneconomic.
Matthew RaskoffHOST
20:03
At some point, the whole economy will just be teachers and nurses, and there'll be nothing left.
Paul LeBlancGUEST
21:07
And the measure of success may not be efficiency.
Paul LeBlancGUEST
21:09
The measure of success may be quality of human life, quality of human society, right? I wrote about this in my book, Broken.
Paul LeBlancGUEST
21:17
There are scaled systems of care that have overcome Baumol's Law, but they do a very interesting thing They don't do what we usually do, which is we rethink a system, we apply technology and design everywhere we can, and then we tolerate as much human cost and engagement as we have to.
Paul LeBlancGUEST
21:38
And when I wrote Broken, I interviewed people like Xander Packard, who created Medical One.

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