Is that right?

Yeah.

So I think one of the major kind of breakthroughs about Bitcoin is that we live in a world that is essentially, besides us talking with our friends directly or being in person, is mediated by other third parties.

Every interaction, every time you pay someone, every time you send a message to someone, every time you get paid by your employer, you're receiving it in a unit of account that is subject to a monetary policy of someone else.

It's not this, you know, asset from the heavens that is here.

It is fully mediated, it is fully manufactured, and everything about our lives is.

And what that leads to, in some cases it's great.

What's one of the highest highs you had and what's one of the lowest lows, and what'd you take away from it?

What do companies get wrong when they're assuming that a retail grade setup is good enough, you know, for a treasury program?

Well, you know, I think there are various varying degrees of, of, you know, of companies holding a treasury.

There were times in Fold's history where, you know, probably our setup looked a lot like what a retail customers, um, you know, trading account would look like.

You buy some Bitcoin, you can withdraw it, you can hold it, you know, maybe you got some breaks and better economics along the way.

Uh, but by and large, it looked, you know, very similar.

Now, um, And that that setup works for many, many different types of, you know, small to medium businesses who are just kind of holding a Bitcoin treasury as part of their strategy.

You know, it's not all of it.

When you've talked with capital allocators or investors, have they expressed concerns or different questions that you might not have had since being public in managing the exchange relationship, in managing liquidity relationships?

Why don't other people do it? Why don't other credit card companies and other people do this sort of a thing?

Well, the very easy answer is because the rewards industry is an economic engine into itself for banks and credit card companies.

And what I mean by that is the fact that they pay out in cash, the fact they pay out in airline miles are actual revenue opportunities for them themselves.

Because a hard piece of this whole thing is that Airline miles is a great example.

You may be getting a large number that looks big, thousands of miles or 5% back in miles.

But those miles, the actual real value is very different than the actual perceived value of them.

And The delta between that, the perceived value that a consumer places on that mile and the actual value that they get from it is very wide.

And you could buy that physical gift card for iTunes and then you go and load that and redeem it and yeah so yeah so that's a very interesting insight that you made it physical so for people the mainstream users who couldn't visualize Bitcoin they can now do that you know what other sort of use case you found that told you that yes Fold has got customer market fit