or your legacy for your career for that matter.

Yeah.

Listen, for me, I'm very proud when I look back 21 years as athletic director, I'm in my 11th year here.

I'm the longest serving AD in Michigan history since Don Canham, right? I mean, when you think about it, that's 38 years he's retired.

I'm the longest serving AD since then.

I'm very proud of what we have accomplished here at Michigan, what I've accomplished in my career at both at Buffalo, UConn, and now Michigan.

You know, I came here as a student athlete in 1986.

But I'm going to tell you why.

So as you look at the next AD, what are some of the things that you see on the horizon here at Michigan that can keep you competitive while at the same time not letting, not having costs, you know, price you out of being able to run an entire department? Because that's what you gotta worry about these days.

Yeah, we, you know, here we have 29 sports, and there was never a thought of reducing that or cutting any sports.

Matter of fact, we, we're about to have a groundbreaking for a new men's gymnastics facility, um, that's necessary because the coliseum is, is gonna go away.

But also, uh, you know, a great example of a program that has won, in our history, multiple national championships and coming off a national championship in two years.

So we believe at Michigan in broad-based programming.

Uh, I think what's necessary, Sam, for all of college athletics is for this Protect College Sports Act or a similar law to go into effect that brings some, some parameters to college athletics in terms of the spend and what we do as it relates to, um, to supporting our student athletes through rev share.

Uh, and so ultimately, I think the new athletic director has gotta work closely with, uh, Tony Petitti in the conference and the, the AD colleagues that they're gonna have to really work through and try to get something that normalizes this across all sports.

Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

Or your legacy for your career, for that matter.

Yeah.

Listen, for me, I'm very proud when I look back.

21 years as athletic director.

Uh, I'm in my 11th year here.

I'm the longest serving AD in Michigan history since Don Canham, right? I mean, when, when you think about it, that's 38 years he's retired.

I'm the, the longest serving AD since then.

When you look back, the things that you are most proud of, and then as you look back, and just the highlights, because you could be proud of a lot of things, and then as you look back, the things that you would say, "You know what? I would maybe do that different."

Take me back to your thought process and how you presented that to your leadership core and what was the response when you decided to do that? Because ultimately it worked out.

Yeah, I mean, I think that was one of the first times where social media said I was fired, right? And, you know, listen, many fans.

I also have a lot of emails that I kept in text messages from that time who don't remember that they wanted Jim gone, particularly after his success.

I've known Jim since 1986, since I was a student athlete here.

He was captain of the team.

I watched his career over the years and then obviously worked with him closely, you know, when he was here.

And so 2020 happened and there were a lot of things that went into that season.

And it seems tied to the, you know, the way that you were able to strategically kind of give them a little bit of breathing room to get that that roster retained.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and, you know, listen, many fans, uh, I also have a lot of emails that I kept and text messages from that time, uh, who don't remember that they wanted Jim gone, uh, particularly after the success.

Um, I, I've known Jim since 1986, since I was a student athlete here.

He was captain of the team.

I watched his career, uh, over the years, um, and then obviously worked with him closely, you know, when he was here.

And so 2020 happened, and there were a lot of things that went into that season.

There were a lot of things we were dealing with for people to remember, you know, back then, whether we were gonna play at all in the Big 10, and we had stopped the season.

Mm-hmm.

When you s- let's start off by talking about of all the things that you're proud of in your tenure, what are the accomplishments that sort of stand out to you? When you say, "I'm, I'm really proud of that," what first or second or third comes to mind when you talk about your, your time here at Michigan in far as what you're proudest of?

It, it has been and always will be about the academic success of graduations or graduating of our student athlete, 100%.

This is, this is why I love being and working at a university, because it's first and foremost about getting them the education that they need to be successful long-term in life.

That's number one.

So I'm very proud of the academic All-Americans that we had, the, the student athletes who were academic All-Big Ten, 80% with a 3.0 last semester, uh, or higher.

Those kind of things drive me first and foremost.

Always has been, always will be, uh, in my career.

Let's, let's talk about it from the Ward introspection standpoint, when you look back and you say, "Oh man, you know, we could improve there," or, "We need to improve this." What's, what's the biggest thing from the things that have gone wrong that you've taken away as far as this was an area of improvement that if we do it different moving forward, we'll avoid those kinds of mistakes? What jumps out to you in that regard?

... that flipped this thing?

(sighs) I don't know if it's one thing or... But, I mean, you know how that is. I mean, that, that game, you could throw out the record book, you could throw out the, you know, where people are and who's, who's supposed to win, um, those games. And, um, I- I don't, I don't know what it was. I- I don't... You know, I- I can... You know, obviously I'm gonna give credit to Sherrone, I'm gonna give credit to the staff, and especially the student athletes. I mean, we... You know, I played in that game. It's hard. It, it's a lot of effort. And, and believe me, we didn't win because Ohio State wasn't giving effort. Everybody was giving effort. Um, but the reality is, you had some things, you know, go our way. You know, you had a, uh, early pick, uh, changed, I think, the, the tenor of the game. Uh, in the second half, you had a couple of missed field goals from a, a kicker who was strong all year, um, that just seemingly, it happens, right? And, um, and so I think, uh, that and just the tenacity of the game and the way our kids fought. Um, particularly, I think, um, as we evolved, uh, I think Wink called a great game. Uh, defensively, that may have thrown off the, the game plan. I mean, you know as a coach better than I do. I just look at it as, uh, in a sense of that battle, it was so close that little things made a difference. And both teams were... Th- that was a hard-hitting game, as you saw. Uh, the effort was there. The... Everybody was engaged in it, and I think you have, uh, as it comes in all these games, little things that make a difference. Uh, 'cause normally they're not blowouts. I mean, there've been blowouts on both sides over the, the hundred, almost hundred years, or hundred years of us playing. But, you know, it's, it's rare that that's the case, uh, in these games. And again, no matter, you know, what the record. And so, uh, I get, like I said, I give a lot of credit to, to the kids and the fighting, uh, of, of the teams, both sides fighting for a win. Uh, and ultimately, you know, the, uh, the way it came out is we won the game, and, and obviously very happy to do it. But it, it just not... It wasn't like we had some secret, um, you know, things that, that we did. Um, you know, it's just... And, and y'all didn't... Ohio State didn't do any secret things either. I mean, everybody just came into sh... (laughs) It- it was just a scrap match from the very start. And so, um, there, there was, there was nothing. I think, you know, if there's anything, you know, Sherrone, like, like we always wanna do is establish the run. And I think that was helpful, you know, in the second half that we were able to, to run the ball.

All right, so let's talk about the College Football Playoffs, Ward. Uh, last season was the first edition of the 12 teams. You were the chairman for it. Um, when you reflected back with the rest of the committee and reassessed how everything went, what were the big success points for you guys in your committee?

Well, I think, one, you know, the process that we followed this year was the same process that has been followed, uh, for the years, you know, before us. We selected the top, uh, 25, uh, for six weeks. Uh, we went all the way through, as we were asked to do by the commissioners, through the championship weekend, uh, and selected the top 25. And so I'm very proud of what the committee does. I'm, I'm one of 13. I'm, I'm just the spokesperson for it, but proud of the way that we, we went about doing our business to rank the teams. And you're always gonna have people who disagree. I mean, it, that's just the, the part of, uh, the business and part of being on the committee that's ranking. The same thing, they do the same thing with basketball committees and any other committees. There's always second-guessing as to why something, uh, happened the way it happened. So, I'm very proud of that, very, very, uh, proud of the way the 12-game, uh, play- uh, uh, 12-team playoff play- played itself out. I mean, it's... You know, you could talk about upsets and who lost and who won, but there was a lot of engagement towards the end of the year, in my opinion. More engagement because there were more teams involved, even if you go all the way to the, the ACC championship game where Clemson was in the game, uh, where they wouldn't have even been a part of the conversation had it not been for the way the playoff, uh, was organized, where the top five champions get into the playoff. So, uh, for me, it was very much a, a great result for the, uh, first 12-team, uh, playoff because of that, because of the, the amount of engagement in games. You think about, uh, the SMU on the other side of that. You think about the Pac- I mean the, um, the Big 12 championship game and what that meant. Those, those are things that I think add a lot of value to the importance of college football towards the end, because the year prior, it was probably, what, six, seven, maybe eight teams that were being discussed? Now you have all the way up to 16, 17 teams being discussed. Those things are, I think, the value of, uh, of bringing this, this championship, uh, and increasing the numbers. And so I, I thought that was, uh, that was a good a- (clears throat) aspect of the change.