VRML

... debate of how that is.

It's, um, in some ways, you know, I remem- I have, I still have a VRML book from, like, late '90s.

I remember when VRML was like, "Oh, when you get on the internet, you're gonna be using virtual reality headsets, and you'll be walking through a virtual mall." And then Google came out-

Mm-hmm

... and it was just simple text that was super fast, and no one wants a bunch of... like, a kludgy interface.

True.

H-how did-- How-- Seeing your, your first wife handle sickness and taking care of her for, I think you said 15 years, how, how did that change your perspective on your next marriage, which is who you're married to now? How did that change your perspective on-

You know, somehow I don't think of the two things at once.

It's like I'm, I'm in a second life.

That then evolved into building 3D for the web.

So VRML, which is the very first version of 3D on the World Wide Web, which became the standard for 3D on the web, So any web 3D that anyone sees today is essentially the child of the technology that I developed 32 years ago.

That's amazing.

And that led to then writing and teaching and continuing to research, coming to Australia a little over 20 years ago to start a postgraduate program here.