Visual Studio Code

We have lots of that, too, as well.

But most of it's GitHub repositories, NPM packages, PyPy packages, VS Code extensions.

These are things that just will never exist in the virus total world, right? And moreover...

A lot of the things that unfortunately work really well in the kind of classic, you know, malware analysis, binary analysis world, like file hashes, a really, really good example is file hashes are almost worthless in my world.

But anyhow...

They have to find these ever new unique ways to get their stuff to successfully drop and run.

on you know victims machines and so um you know they tend to use the same motions like vs code is you know for contagious interview vs code is still the dominant way that they do that initial um compromise that initial infection vector is still via vs code um because it freaking works it just works man why you

know yeah

The questions it asks users get written into a file called, and it expects users to go into that file to answer and record their responses.

But ever since I started using AI IDEs, I haven't touched traditional editors like VS Code in a long time.

I really don't want to open up a whole IDE just to answer a few questions.

That's way too much hassle.

Years ago, where somebody would say, you can do anything you can do with your Vim stuff.

You can do it in IntelliJ or VS Code.

Doesn't matter.

But the argument I would always make is, well, you need to enjoy your tools.

I never touched Lovable, but I heard a lot about it.

But because I had a developer friend set my website on like VS Code, basically like a terminal where you could code.

I was just like, no, I'm not touching lovable.

I'm already set up.

So, on the screen,

Nate, I just want to ask really quickly, on the screen, because I'm telling you, like, me from six months ago would be like, what the hell's going on? Why are you on VS Code? I thought you were working on Claude.

I'm seeing different interfaces.

And I know that you can use these LMs to work in terminals.

Like, I finish this podcast, hopefully, and then I start building a game.

Like, what...

Why are you working on VS Code? How can someone just get started? Because they're thinking, I thought I had to use Cloud.

Well, what's going on here?

I have the wrong tools for the part of the job that we're doing, right? So not that I'm saying that AI is the wrong tool in this scenario, but what I'm saying is you're giving a bunch of craftsmen the wrong kind of tool they don't understand how to use yet.

And I think even us, Tommy, if we had to be realistic about it, we're still trying to figure out what does it mean to be an AI engineer? I just watched the documentary for VS Code.

Oh, yeah, that was

great.

I'd want to ask my customer first before I did anything there.

Part of my requirements or part of my setup of the project would be, okay...

Tell me your expectations on what the output of this looks like, right? Is your expectation that we're going to go to fabric.com and then click around and make stuff happen? If that's your expectation, I'm going to ask, well, did you know there's another experience that's, this agentics experience with VS Code.

I can talk to agents and it can do things on behalf of me.

We actually started with TypeScript for one and a half months.

So we were like, okay, like, you know, VS Code seems to be working pretty fast.

pretty fine with typescript why don't we also did that yeah so we started writing that uh in typescript for a while um and then at like week six we decided to give up because the performance was just like way too slow and then the worst part was that um just like all of our developer friends would like refuse to use a new terminal if they knew that it was built in typescript

oh okay even if it was extremely performant

And I just remember being like, what is this screen? What is this? And he's writing CD, LS, and it's just this most intimidating thing in the world.

And so then the next time I touch the terminal, I'm in college because my CS class is like, you must use Vim and you must learn Vim.

And, and I just like have this memory of being like, what is this like archaic tool that people use? Why do people use this archaic tool? Like, why don't we just have like VS code? You know, like why did we need the terminal? And then obviously as I became like, I went more into like software engineering and deeper into engineering, I understood it.

But I totally understand that like when you're building a product like that, it is, it is a really, it is a really intimidating tool in the first place because and you have to deeply understand how the thing works how current developers use it but then also like how do you introduce new developers into it and so just people who can speak speak that language and have also this like presence or marketing presence it's just like such a niche intersection of skills

And then I learned, okay, a few of them are using it.

They have the Cloud Code plugin on their Visual Studio Code, but they've never heard of Cursor.

And I think the reason they have been hesitant is because Our head of infrastructure and cybersecurity, my boss, and his first question was what you ended with there, and how do we govern this? How do we make sure it's not going crazy? The hallucinating is kind of up to the user to trust but verify.

But the data loss protection, the making sure that users aren't using their own personal AI subscription and uploading a confidential PDF into it, things like that.