Vanessa Woods

And not on the topic, but it's also a Dutch podcast, because I tend to listen a lot to Dutch podcasts, is De Ongelooflijke, in which, uh, a couple of really bright minds interview people from all over the country, all kinds of expertises and stuff.

And if you're a non-Dutch, uh, listener, please listen to Vanessa Woods' podcast, A Room with a View.

That's very interesting, and in English.

So actually I gave three [laughs].

Yeah.

I don't have, like, a real mentor, but I do have people to look up to.

Uh, Knox Nauta, Vanessa Woods, Els de Wit, P. Susan Jackson, that are all people within the field, but also outside of my field.

Maybe my mom is some sort of mentor for me because she does the mirroring thing, and it helps a lot.

Like we are born with a connection to nature and we just need to connect with it.

But then Vanessa Woods and her colleague Melina Newth, they're like, no, wait

a second.

Not everybody is automatically connected to nature.

I'm Sam, and today we're talking about a book that completely flipped my understanding of evolution.

It's called Survival of the Friendliest, and it's by Brian Hare and Vanessa Woods.

Sophie, I have to ask, did this book mess with your head the way it messed with mine?

Oh, absolutely.