Vanessa Andreotti

Yeah.

You know, it's like being on a podcast is a very interesting way to get honest about that 'cause you, we want, you want eyes and ears and time on this podcast, right? So it's like if we're very honest, we're all complicit, to use Vanessa Andreotti's frame.

You know, we're all...

But we're also just embedded in systems of, um, competition, which if we looked at it in terms of ecology, ecology functions in terms of limitlessness and, um, limits and possibility.