Vagus nerve stimulation

But I think the oversimplification of social media lets it be this beautiful, relaxing break only, and we don't talk about the, the other side.

So is there any risk Or any known cases of vagal nu- vagal stimulation actually making people more stressed or more alert when they've actually desired to be more relaxed? I'm just wondering, some of these devices and things, could they actually have the opposite effect?

Yeah.

So what's really interesting is that, like, let's, let's say for instance, a lot of people are using vagal nerve stimulators nowadays.

I've never done this before." So they could actually feel that heightened sense of anxiety.

Like it's, it's, it, but it might be to a little bit more of a significant extent when people use these vagal nerve stimulators.

Now, is that because we're getting, like, too much vagal stimulation? It could be.

Like, it, it honestly could be.

By the time I got the VNS surgery, I was like, wow, this is

amazing.

A year after the VNS surgery, I ran a marathon.

I did the Colfax marathon.

So I felt like I could have more energy.

Yeah.

So I recently have undergone something called vagus nerve stimulation surgery.

And I have learned that swiping my VNS has really helped to mitigate those auras.

I keep that on my nightstand, and [chuckles] I do that in the morning if, uh, my toddler sleeps with us, which is always fun, but if he, if he's still sleeping, I'll grab it and do a little session right when I wake up.

Uh, 'cause I've, I've read the research on VNS, and apparently in the morning, they saw if it was done in the morning, like around sunrise time, a bigger increase in HRV that same night.

If they did it before bed, there were still benefits, but not that same increase in HRV.

So I think VNS, uh, or vagus nerve stimulation is a huge thing that's pretty easy to do, um, that can help a lot with, with this stage of life as well.

Yeah, I, I sometimes, um, find utility in, in thinking backwards, and one of the things, because I'm a geneticist, I'm really interested in phenocopies.

I'm not sure if you know that, that term.

Today, my guest is Povilis Sabalioukis, who is the co-founder and CEO of Pulseto, one of the fastest-growing wellness tech companies in the world.

A leader in non-invasive neuromodulation, Pulseto is redefining how we approach stress, sleep, and recovery through wearable vagus nerve stimulation backed by science and loved by high performers around the globe.

With a background in tech and performance coaching, Pulseto has become a passionate advocate for making cutting-edge wellness tools accessible to everyone, not just elite athletes or clinical patients.

Under his leadership, Pulsetto has partnered with leading researchers, completed clinical trials, and grown to over 100,000 users across Europe and the U.S. Povilis brings a unique mix of business strategy, biohacking curiosity, and real-world stress recovery insights, making him a fresh voice in the growing world of neuromodulation and mental resilience.

I had a small MVP version of our device.

We tried it.

One of the indications of vagus nerve stimulation is cluster headaches, migraines, with our device.

Understood

Okay.

There's also sometimes people will talk about other things like DBS or deep brain stimulation or VNS, which is vagal nerve stimulation.

These are things that we mostly use for either like Parkinson's in the case of DBS or refractory epilepsy in the case of VNS.

But these like require the implantation of devices.

And so those are kind of different.

Yeah, I mean, it's, one, I walk people through the importance of a claims matrix and documenting everything you can and cannot say, what data you have to back it up, what references are needed, training everyone in-house on the use of it, and then coming up with a tiered system of review on, well, what needs to go up to a committee level review versus if you have an influencer or something.

One of the areas where I see people really crossing over a line, and I had a startup in vagal nerve stimulation back in the day, wearable, and that's in an interesting space because you can make a lot of wellness claims with VNS, and you can make medical device claims.

And it really is not in the functionality of the product, but in what you're claiming it can do most of the time.

[laughs] But they want to see, and there are a lot of companies that might have a wellness device and then also be pursuing medical claims.