Tuor

He's struggling up the ridge when all of a sudden there is a light in the sky and the noise of thunder.

This again, it's pretty similar to Tuor's vision and experience with Ulmo, the sound of thunder as Ulmo comes out of the sea, that sort of thing.

It's very similar there.

There may be a parallel happening with an alarm, a sound that wakes him from his slumber, being mirrored in the dream.

Aragorn and Arwen are constantly compared to Beren and Luthien.

Then, of course, there is Idril and Tuor.

Yeah, of course.

I'm guessing that Tuor was the human?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes, so I do think it would be weird if it were other.

I do think Tolkien was even maybe thinking that a little.

"'Come, Erendis,' he said, "'eight years I have stayed.

You cannot bind forever in soft bonds the son of the king, of the blood of Tuorn Erendil.

And I am not going to my death.

I shall soon return.' "'Soon?' she said.

But I was focused on the Baron and Luthien Aragorn and Arwen parallel.

rather than the um the famous marriages number um but uh yeah anyway um yeah exactly bjornning um idril tuor is more like fairy because tuor reportedly becomes an elf yeah exactly like tuor doesn't actually come out again he sort of doesn't come out unchanged um it's just, it's different.

So again, obviously it's in the, it's in the discussion.

Um, but, but it's not a parallel.

The Edain, Atani, were three peoples of men who, coming first to the west of Middle-earth and the shores of the Great Sea, became allies of the Eldar against the enemy.

There were three unions of the Eldar and the Edain, Luthien and Beren, Idril and Tuor, Arwen and Aragorn.

By the last, the long-sundered branches of the half-elven were reunited and their line was restored.

Luthien Tinuvio was the daughter of King Thingol, Grey Cloak of Doriath, in the First Age, but her mother was Melian of the people of the Valar.

Elwing was his daughter and had in her keeping the Silmaril.

Idril Celebrindal was the daughter of Turgon, king of the hidden city of Gondolin.

Tuor was the son of Huor of the house of Hador, the third house of the Edain, and the most renowned in the wars with Morgoth.

Eärendil the Mariner was their son.

Interesting.

Interesting that they're not mentioned as men, but they certainly could have been, right? Earendil's line ran through Tuor and Beren just as much as it did through Idril and Luthien.

The name, though, was made by the elves, and the fraction is calculated from the elvish side.

Elrond and Elros spend their entire existence described in terms of what portion of elf they are.

Yeah, it's...

One of the other weapons that we see in Numenor and the Rings of Power, actually, is Dramborleg, the Axe of Tuor.

And, I mean, that was cool and everything, but I don't know how that survived.

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that kind of thing is actually in the Silmarillion, isn't it? That those things were handed down and were possessed by Numenor, but were lost in the downfall.

remember

the two trees dagger was originally thin rods yeah but it's not but yeah it's not I mean he had what he would have had like some cool weapons but yeah they weren't they're not named at least anywhere that I could find so um

I don't even think I've already mentioned Dramberleg, which was the the axe of Tuor, one of the fathers of men and who went to Gondolin.

But there's another famous axe, which actually doesn't get I don't think gets a name in the legendarium.

John's back on the Content Council with this week's question, and it's one of the great near-misses in all of Tolkien.

What would have happened if Tuor and Vranwe had spoken with Turin Turambar at the Pools of Ivryn? Now, before we move into the episode, I need to address something from last week's, might've been Monday, where we speculated about what would have happened had the Balrog fell, but Gandalf did not.

Look, here's the thing.

I was so focused on Gandalf that I missed the very obvious point.

Now, how that would have played out is more a question for the dwarves than for Gandalf or for the main story of the Lord of the Rings.

But it is an obvious thing that I should have thought about and mentioned.

Now, let's move on to Tuor and Turin not meeting up for a cup of coffee and a chat.

First, let's set the board.