Toni Wine

He just kinda like, "I don't, I'm gonna get a music degree.

What am I gonna do with my life?" But his dad was actually the person most uncomfortable with that 'cause he knew his son, and his dad tipped him off that there was a songwriter named Toni Wine, a lady.

Uh, she had written for Tony Orlando and Dawn and the Mindbenders.

If you're not familiar with the Mindbenders, in the '60s, was gonna teach a four-week course on songwriting at the University of Memphis that's near where he lived.

Well, nothing wrong with that.

But anyway, the two writers worked in the Brill Building and went on to become very famous songwriters and singers, and their names are Tony Wine and Carol Bayard Sager.

Bayard Sager, okay.

You really dated them?