But sometimes I pick up on a bit of reluctance and a bit of fear around data that it might be taken out of farmers' ownership and used by supply chains so a couple of questions there classic down waffley any pitfalls around data and also how we make that information accessible to farmers and appeal to a wide

You've asked me two questions, meaning I'm probably not going to answer either of them.

I'll give it a go.

So two things.

One, we've just talked about how data is just the back end of that data and the research is important for a movement that's trying to learn and move forwards and is relatively still quite niche within the wider industry.

Then you've got how much of that data is accessible or relevant to the farmer trying to make a change.

And obviously, again, that comes back to my point I just made earlier.

And what NICE

Mm.

Uh, you certainly...

I'm, I, you know, I'm, I'm an evidence-based medicine, uh, trained doctor, but I also understand, uh, you know, the, the stagnation that can happen when the evidence doesn't exist.

It's, you know, it's a two-way process here.

You can't just sit there and say, "Well, we're not doing that.

I can't do that.

There's no evidence around it." You've got to recognize that there's a point, which is now, where we need to sort of nail this and get, get that confidence because the confidence has to come through st- to the point where you can, you know, just from a simple labeling a food point of view, bec- you know, we can't...

Mm.

it's not hard to do a lot better it's really not hard to do a lot better

and there's plausibility behind that as well obviously from a science point of view you know it makes sense that if you've got a biologically active soil with you know with microbes working hard for you they're exchanging those micronutrients with the plant they're helping that plant stay healthy and that plant is looking after itself producing its own phytochemicals producing its own vitamins and having increased amounts of micronutrients so from a science point of view i suppose we're all a bit obsessed by science in the medical world but you know just having the plausibility you know you've seen a relationship there but actually this makes sense it makes a

I was in Brazil and I was at carnival and I met someone who worked for a zempic very high up just randomly we started chatting and she said to me you have no idea there is going to be a wave you've never seen before there will basically be no obese people left in the world with this because it's so cheap it's cheaper than than in many ways in many places than buying more food you know so it's if that kind of happens do you see this opportunity for sustainable farming which kind of goes with this regen idea because you'll need nutrient density at that point I find it all quite depressing

you know you know the fact that we've got this terrible food system that's delivered this awful state of public chronic disease, followed by a solution that we all just take a drug for the rest of our lives, right? And I suppose from a caveat, I don't currently have a license to practice medicine because I haven't seen a patient for 12 months, so what I say now isn't clinical advice, go and see your doctor about it, but ultimately, if you're on a weight loss jab, it should be delivered with nutritional support and it should also be delivered with weight resistant exercise as well.

What I would say about drugs generally is there's always a lot of buzz around new drugs because the people making the buzz are the people trying to sell them.

You will always get this peak, then you will find this sort of levelling off piece.

So I do sort of slightly wonder whether it's going to be not quite as dramatic as they say it is.

The adherence is about 10%, so people do not stay on it for that long.

ha ha ha ha!

I'm Tom Pearson.

I am one of three co-directors of Third Row Projects, along with Janine Ouellette and Zach Morris.

Zach Morris has been the vision keeper and creator of the Steampunk Haunted House.

This is now its second year here at Abrams Arts Center.

Steampunk Haunted House is based on a couple of ideas, primarily the aesthetic of steampunk, which is sort of an anachronistic It's like a Victorian past meets, you know, our contemporary technology, but in sort of this fantasy world where the ultimate technology was steam.

The other main consideration that we wanted to address was the suspense and what actually is scary, what actually terrifies people.

Mm

... to get an interviewee to tell a story that's as personal, uh, as important as this, is never a quick process, and nor should it be, really, because they need to be sure about who you are and what you're doing for them to fully invest and fully tell their story.

Um, so it takes a long time.

And then, and also there is the practicalities as well of securing the permission of the prisons themselves when your interviewee is in prison, that, uh, enables you to get in and film with them.

But I think the, the common thread with all interviewees is it's, they want an opportunity to tell their story fairly and properly.

You know, in Sarah's case, in particular, she'd been, I think it's fair to say, vilified in some of the press reports.

She'd been caricatured as the female Charles Manson, and so she was understandably wary about engaging with the media.

Was there something that stood out for you in her life that maybe went sideways, that predated Rick? Like, like anything else?