I think for a lot of folks out there it seems a little bit more muddy than it used to be as far as, you know, where, where do I fit politically? Where do other people fit politically? And when you use the term center right or, or terms like principled, evidence-based conservatism, what's the best way to help f- people understand what does that actually mean, and why is it necessary today?

Well, I think, uh, a lot of people...

I hear a lot of people say, "Well, I, I, I'm a Reagan Republican." You know, I, I, I kind of, um...

A- and that's certainly true for me.

And a lot of people will say, like, I...

You know, with, with Trump and with, um, with, with everything that's going [laughs] on in politics, I, I don't know where, you know, w- whether I was...

I, I have people tell me, "I don't know if I'm still a Republican or not." They're, they're not really sure.

But can you talk about that a little bit? Help our audience understand what is Utah's model, what are some of its advantages, and, and how do you see that playing out in the future?

What's your argument against that?

so we're a think tank and we're a think tank that does some lobbying um but we also like i said we file amicus briefs we run public uh opinion polling through y2k analytics we publish op-eds we publish policy position statements so you know look at we we're a 501c3 we have uh very strict guidelines on what lobbying we can do and who can do it And the president and CEO cannot be a lobbyist.

We do have two hired lobbyists and they do a fine job.

So I wasn't hired to lobby for the organization.

And by the way, Ali, I've been on the board of United Way of Salt Lake for the last decade.

They lobby the legislature.

I'm on the board of the of the Children's Museum, the Discovery Gateway Children's Museum.

So if the Sutherland Institute is, you know, backing a certain idea or a certain policy idea, and it's something that is unpopular with the people of Senate District 8, you will vote in the interest of the people of Senate District 8? Not in the interest, in the will, to the will of the people of Senate District 8? Yes.