Yeah.

But now you're coming in and there's a couple of things working against you.

One, you're a helo guy.

Two, you're coming in as one of the flight commanders.

So you're supposed to kind of know Moose Jaw, the rules, the game, because it's got a lot of rules in it, right? Being a school.

And you're supposed to really be pretty proficient at fixed wing.

So I definitely knew I had a long road and I remember, uh, when I showed up, they were going to kind of slow roll me initially.

What perspectives did civilian life give you that the military service hadn't?

How much of these capabilities at the time was just basically being invented and, and refined as you went along? Like it sounds like it was basically a collaborative process.

It was.

It was probably a crawl, walk, run a bit even when SOF flight was flying with the RCMP, and then as, as we started to take over, as JTF2 started to take over, they started to kind of shape how they wanted certain inserts and extracts to happen.

And you had to think about it, and maybe the, a lot of the time, uh, that's different in what we were doing compared to the conventional, uh, forces is we had to be able to do it on the first time.

So if there was a specific building that we had to go and insert the troops on in a, in a city- You had one chance to, to fly tactically into that location and safely insert them and leave without, you know, without waking up the, the bad folks that are in the building, let's say, and coming around again 'cause you missed it, or you were half a kilometer away 'cause you read the wrong building.

So you had to be no fail.

You had to be perfect on that insert when you've never been over that building before or never been over that target before.

As we look at wrapping up this part of our chat, what kind of mindset does that look like, and, and what kind of mindset do you think is required to have that refuse-to-lose mentality and, and to be successful in SOF?

Oh no.

Yep.

And there is a, there is a video from somebody on the ground.

I've seen it.

Somebody on the ground was filming the tail of this helicopter and because it started to vibrate violently, but what you saw was, Is the helicopter, the tail detached from the helicopter, literally flew right by the cockpit.

Oh my goodness.

Like it just, it came off.

Did that feel like a big deal at the time?

Yep.

Right.

So, and I remember Herm Harrison, uh, he, he very good buddy of mine.

Uh, he was the chief helicopter instructor there.

He came from four to seven and he ultimately down the road was my CEO.

But so he brings me in the office.

And he says, listen, with your personality, you would be perfect in Tack Hell.

So what is the difference between a Twin Huey and a Griffin? Because they look pretty similar, right?