Timothy Winter

O'Neill's days were spent analyzing fragments of information.

There was the story about two of Ramsey Youssef's Bojinka co-conspirators, Wali Khan Amin Shah and Abdul Hakim Murad.

In 1995, Murad told a story of Middle Eastern pilots training at U.S. flight schools and of a proposal to dive-bomb a jetliner into a federal building.

It was a tantalizing bit of information.

And then the first day of the Islamic classes started.

So it was someone called Abdul-Hakim Murad, Sheikh Abdul-Hakim Murad, and someone called Sheikh Muhammad Isa Waeli.

two British guys and then as everyone was going into the lessons I really didn't want to go because I liked it for how man I don't want to like this Muslim stuff it's just not for me I just want to have a laugh you know I want to live life and then I remember me and my friend were kind of kicking the football around by the mosque I think we actually kicked the football into the mosque wall while the class was going on so it wasn't very polite but then we're both saying like should we go should we not you know it's weird not to go So we walked in and I remember when we walked in, it was just so serene.

The atmosphere of the place, it wasn't like something I'd experienced before because I hadn't been into a mosque or anything like that.

A lot of people don't, even on the census, necessarily put down, uh, Muslim.

Uh, and in fact, uh, I remember, uh, um, Professor Abdul Hakim Murad, Timothy Winters, you know, and he was saying that there are lots of submarines.

And, and he called them submarines because they, these were people who had accepted Islam, but they decided deliberately not to go public because they knew that the repercussions for, for their careers, um, uh, you know, generally would be s- you know, difficult, uh, for them.

It would make life difficult for them.

His academic background spans anthropology, politics, comparative religion, architectural history, urban design, theology, and Islamic studies.

He completed his PhD at the University of Cambridge under Dr. Timothy Winter, also known as Sheikh Abdul Hakeem Murad.

Dr. Sameer, assalamu alaikum and thank you so much for joining us today.

Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh.