What kept you going through those years? And was there a point when you almost gave up?

Yes, I did almost give up at several points.

But what kept me going was from the very beginning, I had a goal.

And the goal had two parts.

The first was to create a prototype that I liked.

And the second part was to somehow commercialize it.

And it took three years.

I mean, you've talked about upgraded components and parts of it, but have you ever had people, you know, saying like, oh, you need to add a laser to this or whatever it is?

Tell us about what the experience was like trying to go to market with this when you had your prototype to show people.

I think every inventor values their invention at exactly $1 million, and they think all they have to do is take their patent application and their prototype to a company that could manufacture it, and they'll get paid $1 million and sit back and live happily ever after.

That was not my experience.

The knife company said it was a tool.

The tool company said it was a gadget.

Gadgets don't sell.

So I have to admit that at that point I had about given up.

So at what point did you realize, okay, I think now is the time I can actually jump back into doing this full-time without a secondary income?

There's a lot of things that I've been learning from Tim's story and we'll see.

But getting back to the process of the book.

So we talked about Chris interviewing me and then we started doing some writing.

But then there's a step in the process called a proposal.

And Chris created that.

It's what is used to convince an agent to pitch the book.

And then if the agent likes it and the agent fiddles with it a little bit, then the agent uses it to pitch the book to publishers.

What has that relationship been with your customers over the years? And I'm sure it's evolved, but it has to make you feel something, I imagine.

How did Letterman get started?

It started with a budget trip to Europe by my wife and I.

It was started 51 years ago.

Wow.

The reason for the trip was a, what are we gonna do with the rest of our lives? And the reason we had that question was that we had lived in Vietnam for the previous two and a half years, and we had to leave under rather harrowing circumstances.

And after we did leave and were able to get her family, my wife's family out too, and get them somewhat settled in my home city of Portland, Oregon, We then asked ourselves, what are we going to do with the rest of our lives? And so we got a couple of tickets to Europe.

and flew over there.

Nice.

That's awesome.

That's true.

But you did ask was that my-- So for the first three years, uh, I was eu- euphemistically, uh, self-employed, and the, uh, next five years when I-- Well, first I created a prototype I liked, filed for a patent, and I thought, "Now it's gonna be easy.

All I have to do is show my prototype and the patent application to a knife manufacturer, and they'll pay me about a million dollars, and I'll sit back and live happily ever after." But the knife company said no, so I went to the tool co- or the knife company said, "No, it's not a knife, it's a tool." So I went to the tool companies, and the tool company said, "Sorry, it's not a tool, it's a gadget.

Gadgets don't sell."

Wow

... than we had making the tool.

So it was...