[laughs]

But I thought that was my in.

But then these bands and artists, no one would pay attention.

And then we emailed one guy, a guy called Jake, who was a songwriter, an artist, and a YouTuber, and we emailed him, and he said, "Okay, interesting.

Yeah, I'd like to do this for my audience." And then we did the first ever campaign with him where people could buy his merch.

And I thought, "Oh, that's interesting." And then we did it for a second person called Kiera Rose, and Kiera was a YouTuber, and the experience was go with her to Go Ape.

And so I thought, "Oh, maybe we can get Go Ape to actually give us the place for free 'cause, you know, we're bringing a YouTuber." This was at a time where YouTubers were not really seen as, like, who they are now.

The book has, uh, it has spoken to a lot of people.

you were starting out today, having not had the success you've had and the exits that you've had and the businesses that you've built, what are the first questions that you would ask yourself to try and be successful in this climate now?

Ooh, that's great.

So I think to start any successful business, you basically need to answer three questions.

The first question is, what is the current wave? So for example, my last company, Fanbytes, one of the things in hindsight that we did quite well was we built an influencer marketing business in 2017 when influencers were on the rise and there was a wave.

So we didn't actually need to be like geniuses.

We just needed to pick the right wave.

And I think for so many founders, wave picking is actually a skill in itself.

all right,