Why did you call it that?

Well, that and the album's also Ugly.

I think, um, you know, it's, it's just, it's a self-reflection on, like, the- To get this negative talk that I, I have had, and you know, will have again, out, out of my head.

You know, I think it's something to lean into those, you know, and, and, and those insecurities and, and keep them on the forefront.

Because it's always a reminder to myself to talk nice to myself and be kind to myself.

There wasn't a moment in the shower?

Like, no, no, like I, I, I remember, you know, like, I, I was always...

I think the, the true gift that you get given from God is, is like the, I guess the burden and the urgency for wanting to do it.

[laughs]

...

I think, I think we're surprised that, you know, like, as we've been kind of, you know, narrowing it down, I, we're, we're a lot further in the album than we thought we were.

And, and the plan is to, you know, in August, I'm, I'm home all of August, and we're gonna, like, do like, you know, one more big Hail Mary writing camp and, and then kind of just, you know, you know, kind of tweak and tweak and tweak.

And I, and I think, so, like, the plan is hopefully in August to be, have it, you know, kinda buttoned up and...

Or at least the songs we want and the things.

Then, then we can just kinda keep tweaking the production or whatever from there and there and there.

Mm-hmm

... 'cause you just make, you just focus on making.

Yeah.

But what, now we're, now we're, like, buttoning up and then a lot of stuff is, like, done.

But I think the funny thing is, is that, like, we're, we're in be- between a few records that feel like, you know, this could be the next single bit or whatever.

But I, I also, it's like, it's so funny now 'cause, like, we've never been in this place where...

You know, usually there's one clear line of like, "This is the song," and so it feels like we have a bunch of those.

But also it's like so much in my time coming up, there was like, you know, "Is this good enough?" Or is like, or like, you know, it was always kinda pulling teeth to put out enough records, you know? And now, like, we're in that place where the label's like, "We gotta have the next single," you know? They're always wanting the next one, and so it's, it's a different game 'cause now instead of them being so precious, I'm starting to kinda become too precious about my stuff, you know? And the roles have kinda reversed 'cause I'm like, I, I kinda get this like, "Well, it's my baby" thing about things now, and I get scared to, like, show...

Was getting a face test-- a tattoo almost, like, the first one, like, a commitment to, like, "I'm gonna make it in this business"?

Do you feel like your music is going to change now that you're a dad? You know, it already

has in a lot of ways.

The biggest thing is, again, try not to make it every song the dad song.

Because nobody but parents will want to listen to it.

It's a big market.

It's a big market.

I got to try to...

you love about it so