[upbeat music] In your experience, Tamara, where is there a space now for creativity and sort of being silly?

Oh, I think being silly is central to being creative.

[laughs] Um, there's lots of great research on playfulness and creativity, but it's really that ethos of playfulness, whether it's actual play or whether just bringing that spirit to the workplace or friendship groups.

Wherever you're needing to solve problems, giving the people the space for experimentation and what some might see as silly, but actually is quite a, you know, a good, a clear creative process.

How important is that in an organization?

Fear is a creative killer.

I mean, if people don't feel like they can be vulnerable by offering an idea, they're not going to.

So you need psychologically safe teams, you need a positive climate in an organization because offering an idea is like offering a piece of yourself.