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I appreciate it.

Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen.

You can listen to all of these episodes on your web browser or on the Patreon app on your phone.

So it's very user-friendly.

Again, the website is deepdive.audio. Today's episode is brought to you by Saga Press, publisher of the novel Maisy Wood, a new literary thriller from Tananarive Du.

It is the official September pick of the Other People Book Club.

Maisy Wood is about the grandson of a famous black actress named Mizelle Washington.

The grandson, whose name is Johnny, returns to his grandmother's cabin retreat in the California mountains only to encounter the legacy of her rage born in old Hollywood.

Hi guys, welcome back.

How you doing? It's been a while, hasn't it? Yeah, it's been a few weeks now.

Tell me, what's going on? How is your summer? How's everyone's summer been?

Yeah, it still feels like summer now.

I'm hanging on to it.

It's weird.

I'm currently sweating, drinking water.

TMI.

Hello, you're listening to Better Known, where each episode a guest makes a series of recommendations of things which they think should be better known.

Our recommendations include interesting people, places, objects, stories, experiences and ideas which our guest feels haven't had the exposure that they deserve.

The only conditions for discussion are that our guest loves it and thinks it merits your attention.

as well.

My name is Ivan Wise and this week's guest on Better Known is Anna Hayward.

So you've written for the New Yorker magazine and your new book is called Living with Freddie, How a Dog Taught Me to be Human.

So what led you first to get a dog?

It wasn't because I had like a very strong interest in learning how animals worked or because I knew a lot about animals or because I really knew anything.