how do you switch then from that second level to the third level?

Okay, so this is another framework.

Have you read the book, Love's Journey by Michael Garian? The framework that I love from it is that there's seasons, right? There's spring, there's summer, there's fall, there's winter.

And so spring is what we all love about love.

It's like rainbows and unicorns, we fall in love.

But within that spring season, A betrayal happens, some secret is told, something that you thought, and then we go into power struggle.

And power struggle actually is not a problem if you learn how to do it well.

We did an episode on grief and how that impacts your marriage, but I think that is very certainly in this demographic that we're talking about, 40s to 60s, something that most people in this age range eventually deal with.