Sue Gardner

And that's, you know, part of the overall tech fatigue as well.

One of my first ever interviews as host of this program was with Sue Gardner, who was the founding executive director of Wikipedia, the Wikimedia Foundation that runs Wikipedia.

In fact, we've hosted all of the directors of Wikipedia since its inception, I was just jogging my memory and pulled up the transcript of the conversation with Sue Gardner, in which I basically asked her about the web's potential for social advancement in the public interest.

And I remember so poignantly delivered her words, quote, I'm really worried about the future of the Internet because I think that we risk losing the awesome potential that we have and we risk turning it into something that's just a cross between a shopping mall and a surveillance state.

Sue, your words, prescient and true, In my mind, and I asked you that question about sort of division of labor of people seriously seeking a romantic partner on a social platform, and then the crap that you're fed on Instagram and X, because I see a dividing line.