Can you talk me through that?

Yeah.

I made my Stormers debut on Super Rugby Tour in 2011.

And the first game was against the Chiefs.

And then we played a second game against the Blues, which was absolutely amazing.

Chiefs was tough, lost in the last couple of minutes and then ended up beating the Blues at Eden Park, which was massive for the team.

So there was just the atmosphere and the gears within the squad was just incredible.

Talk me through it.

But how, how does South Africa and under Rassie's leadership manage this dominant period that they're in at the moment?

Yeah, I think they've-- The, the, the big thing that was created from, say, 2017 when Rassie, uh, took over, 2018, was to create, uh, positions and squad depth.

So I think if you, if you look at the, the front row, you look at, um, the f- the f- the loose forwards, the, the, the half-back pairing, there's real depth coming through, and there's almost any one of three players that can be selected.

So I think that was the, the one of the main things in the last couple of years to try and prolong this, this dominance.

So from, from 2019 to '23, there was, uh, COVID happened, and we played the Lions series, uh, behind closed doors.

So you go through that, that tough time, and then you realize Flip, like some of the guys are getting older, some of the guys at the 23 World Cup would be in their early 30s already.

So there's already a, a plan to s- to start bringing in, uh, fresh guys, uh, get them up to speed with what the experienced guys know, the senior guys, uh, almost becoming l- mentors and leaders within the group.

But first, first question, what's the last couple of weeks looked like for the team, and, and how would they have spent that time? And maybe some insights into the side that you think he's going to be picking, uh, to play Australia this weekend.

Why don't we grab yours? What are your thoughts on game one?

Yeah.

Yeah, I thought, uh, coming to Ellis Park is, is never easy, and I thought the, the All Blacks really, really took the opportunities well.

Um, Springboks, for me, was a little bit rusty.

They, um...

It almost felt like there was no cohesion between the forwards and the backs.

Small, little moments, yeah, small, little moments between the forwards and backs that just didn't go to, go to hand.

... for quite some time, right? So do you think he will then sort of start to build it like, you know, the, like the Springboks are now underdogs, uh, it's us against them type of, uh, that mentality, or is it just more something that he might just put out there for the, for the media to talk about but, you know, like he'd sort of still go on with the quiet confidence that he's probably had in the last, you know, six years, eight years?

How has South Africans' preparation for this first test gone? Are they sort of secretly lying in wait? Um, obviously they're plotting New Zealand's downfall, but is there a, not a fear, but are they worried that they won't-- it'll take a, sort of a match or two to get up to match speed to play a team that's battle-hardened and ready to roll?

Yeah, I think also, uh, one of the, the big concerns would be, would 100% be game time.

I think with the way that Rassie went through, um, the four test matches leading up to, to the Nations, or the five test matches leading up to the, the, this greatest rivalry, they've-- he's done a lot of rotation.

So from the Barbarians, uh, into the England game, Scotland, Wales, there's been a lot of rotation from, from players, uh, not really testing combinations.

And I felt with Dave Rennie, he's also done-- He, he picked a-- he almost picked a squad to play, uh, the, the Nations Championship, and then he picked, uh, rotated a lot of players throughout the, the, the franchise games.

I think the Springboks probably maybe take half an hour or 40 minutes just to find a little bit of a groove.

So there might be this, this hot start of, of the All Blacks, uh, because they're a bit battle-hardened.

How do you see this battle going and developing?

You know, it just wasn't as clinical as it usually is, and that seems like a pretty easy fix.

fix.A big part of the, the Springboks attack is to try and force those aerial battles because they either give you a scrum turnover or position, uh, unstructured play.

So from, from that point of view, uh, we saw a lot of kicks from Fassi, uh, almost those running bombs where he, where he comes back, he catches the ball and he comes running down the middle of the field, kicking up and unders.

And Argentina does it well too, to just secure the ball and almost put the pressure back onto the Springboks.

Uh, we saw it from, from Sacha as well.

He was also like to run, run it back, uh, kick, kick the bombs.

And it's a little bit out of the Springbok structure.

But, um, yeah, it, um, it, it must be great as, I guess, as a South African supporter now being able to see the evolution and I guess the multiple ways that you guys are able to win test matches.

[laughs]

Your name starts with Os.

Uh, no, I think for the reason why I'd pick him is, like, if you think about the 2000, uh, 2007, coming out of retirement, he was the one who, who almost built the running loosehead prop.

The guy who's wanna get his hands on the ball, wants to carry well, but, uh, yeah, I think Os is, uh, has got my name written all over it.

So, yeah, that's the, that's my pick.

Who are the two flankers that you guys would have in your South African ultimate 15?

Oh, it's a tough one.

So many guys to pick from, and, um, you can go traditional, uh, as you would know, it's Siya Kolisi, Pieter-Steph, current greats that's playing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To, to give the argument of, like, creating, uh, a specialized, taking a specialized position and then creating an unbelievable, uh, player and revoli- revolutionizing that, Jamie George, uh, in com- on combination with, like, a guy like Schalk Brits back in at Saracens, revolutionized the way that, that hookers carry the ball, running lines, uh, be quite devastating.

So, um, yeah, it, it's, it's a tough conversation to have, and I think we can talk about it for hours, but we probably need to come up [laughs] with a, with a answer.

Who are the two flankers that you guys would have in your South African ultimate 15?

Oh, it's a tough one.

So many guys to pick from, and, um, you can go traditional, uh, as you would know it, Siya Kolisi, Pieter-Steph, current greats that's playing.

Um, but then also for me, a standout guy, probably an unsung hero of, of Springbok rugby for many years, plays rugby in Bath.

In South Africa, is there a mindset that that kind of doesn't matter and the, um, you potentially might face, you know, a strong England team, it's the first game and time South Africa played together, there's actually a, a potential of a, a trip up? Or is this one of those games where South Africa will, um, Rassie and the team will sense sort of like a vulnerability in the England team and it's time to sort of potentially ram home, um, the dominance that this African team has?

Yeah, I think probably to, to sum it up, um, with, with all these, the, the, with the top eight teams in the world currently, like, so anyone can slip up against anyone.

Like, uh, as you rightfully said, Curly, like the, the Six Nation wasn't the greatest tournament, uh, for English supporter or for English player, but the s- the team still shows moments of brilliance.

They pu- they pushed, uh, the French up until the end.

They, they made it com- very difficult for, for every opposition, but there was small little things that from a, from a, maybe from a Springbok point of view that Rassie would've looked at and said, "Listen here," when, when they points down, they, they struggle to get their, their phase attack right, they, they struggle to, to keep consistency within their game plan.

That might be something that, that Rassie looks at and goes, "Listen here, there's, there's a vulnerability." But from a, from a slipping up point of view or from a, from a competitive point of view, I think England's still one of the top teams.

They've got an unbelievable set piece.

Is that very much the feeling now with it, with it just, uh, over a week away?

It's about what others believe and expect of you.

Interesting story.

Like we, after 2019 World Cup, we won.

We, myself, Jacques, Nina and a couple of other Springboks were at a media day.

And one of the questions they asked Jacques was, where to from here? Like, you guys are world champions.

You beat...

You're higher ranked than the All Blacks at this stage.

At that level, what separates a good team from one that wins twice?

Is it?

... like a spi- spicy plum mix, and it's quite lekker.

It's, it's brilliant on a, on a, on a pizza.

So, um, no, for me it's like it's, you know, I take ...

I, I try and not get involved with, with other stuff that other people tried, uh, created and I just go, "Listen here," uh, for me it's just, it's a cool name, but the sauce game is, I leave it up to other people.

I think for me to, to dip my fingers into trying to create a sauce is, that's not gonna work.

If, if someone makes one for Bomb Squad, so be it.

But also what player during that period, and it cannot be Malcolm, anyone else that has impacted you during that stage that really inspired you and motivated you to keep on going?

But what's your thoughts on the POM squad and the naming of the POM squad?

We might have to go back to a drawing board with that one, to be honest.

But I think it's just the way that I think rugby is moving at this stage.

You can't win these big test matches with a 15-man performance, I think.

teams are selecting 23 guys, they're making plans on how they're going to substitute, how they're going to tactically, how they're going to outsmart teams towards the last 30 minutes of the game or last 25 minutes of the game.

So I think with the initiative that probably started in 2019 with the Springboks and is being implemented more often across teams internationally.

It's quite exciting.

you're fine and you're safe, but my gosh, that seems like an unbelievably scary, tense experience for you, mate.