Why not? But I really believe the confidence that he's showing the team, the younger players, is a leader that maybe this is what Rafi wants to be, a quiet leader in that clubhouse.

Yeah, again, it's hard to know exactly what's in a guy's head, but we discussed this earlier, Bill, when you know, when you had Chapman and Adamas and, you know, the other guys of no Elliot Ramos, you know, he didn't necessarily have the, he had the stature certainly of a player who had done a lot of great things in Boston, but he didn't necessarily have the stature or at least the connection with the players and the giants.

But now with those guys either hurt or traded and, almost by default, he has to become something of a leader.

And if you listen to a lot of guys who've been talking about him over the last, maybe five, six weeks, certainly seems as if he's done so.

And you don't have to, you don't have to guess about what he's done at the plate.

I mean, I'll say this too.

What he's done at the plate to me is in a sense, in one way, it's not as impressive as if the giants were in the race.

Then they go on a road trip for six to St. Louis and L.A. What do you see out of this team for 17 games left? Do you like the youth? Do you like some of the movement that they're showing?

Mm

... sort of implies that maybe y- you're right.

If he had taken Tugboat out a batter earlier and put Walker in then, he could have brought in a left-hander to face Nootbaar.

And so even though the game was tied with two outs and nobody on in the, in the fifth, I think, A, he didn't want Nootbaar to beat him again, and B, something we've discussed, when Marte leaves the mound with two outs and nobody on in the fifth, he can feel really good about himself.

Heaven forbid Nootbaar takes him deep and, and what's a really good Major League debut loses a lit of, little bit of its luster.

So, uh, to make a long story dull, uh, I think w- whether Walker was up or not, b- he... uh, that Vitello kind of wished he had gone to a left-hander to face Nootbaar in game one, and he couldn't do it with-

That's awesome

... set up with Cal when he was playing, like, I can't remember exactly.

What did you think of Landon Rupp today?

Yeah.

Up until the, the fourth, he was pretty, uh, efficient and economical, and then, I mean, the bad thing about the fourth is that he threw 35 pitches, and with the Giants ha- having had a taxed bullpen, certainly, uh, the first three games of this home stand, that's not what you wanna see.

But the flip side of that fourth inning is he made a great pitch with the bases loaded to get out of it, and throwing 35 pitches, he still limited the Diamondbacks to the Moreno solo homer.

So all things considered, uh, 95 pitches in five innings ain't great, but, uh, 6-1 win, and the win goes to Landon Rupp.

All in all, I think you take it.

Yeah

... his post-game interview tonight on, at NBC Sports Bay Area, he referenced how, how Rafael Devers has been, uh, more of a leader, say, in the last couple weeks.

Uh, h- how do you think he got so good at doing that at 21?

You know, I think a lot of that is instinctive.

I'll tell you a guy he, he sort of reminds you of in that respect, right, is Brandon Belt.

Big left-handed hitter playing first base who's got a great eye.

Brandon Belt, you know, he wasn't as young, 'cause he had played college ball.

He wasn't as young as Eldridge was when, when Belt made his Major League debut.

But Brandon Belt always had a really good eye, and in fact, he used to get criticized sometimes because he, he, he, Brandon Belt would have been great in the ABS era because there were so many times Brandon Belt took a strike three that probably was three to 4/10 of an inch off the plate, but he didn't have the chance to, to get the ABS call.

[laughs]

... seen out of him, and why does that focus kind of fall away?

Yeah.

It, the, that's hard.

It, it's hard to, to get in somebody's head and say his focus.

I can say [laughs] without hesitation that his, he has not been efficient as, as a, as a strike thrower.

He has thrown too many balls that...

And, and pitches that aren't necessarily, you know, borderline pitches that A, might make the umpire think, or B, might make the batter think.

Mm-hmm

jung-hoo lee is really stepping up here and i really appreciate watching him on defense and right field he has just really sparkled lately

yeah and and to be fair he did probably misplay that ball in texas yeah that game probably should have gone to extra innings but he made he made two good plays uh I believe it was in the fifth inning on those balls that were down the line.

He caught them in foul territory, made one great throw to keep McKinstry at third.

In fact, McKinstry went about 45 feet down the line and made a U-turn.

The second throw, to be honest, wasn't great, but I think because the first throw was good, so good, McKinstry was a little hesitant to go.

So, yeah, Jung-Hoo Lee certainly had a really good game tonight.

And, Bill, I wanted to throw this to you watching – Rafael Devers' home run in the first inning off a hanging curveball.

But these five guys all deserve it.

Mm-hmm.

That, period.

Whether you're talking to people or not.

But I do think for better and/or worse, there's a different perception of players these days fraternizing with their opponents than there was when you played or even before you played.

Certainly in the '60s and '70s, I don't think players would be doing that, and probably in the '80s and, and maybe the '90s.

But in this millennium, it's not, it, it's not that uncommon to see players from opposing teams, you know, shooting the breeze at first base, or when the batter comes to the plate talking to the catcher for a bit.

And I don't have a, a big problem with it.

I think we all did, yeah

That's -- This guy can definitely win another batting title.

Yeah.

Um, here's a, a, a great stat.

It's kind of in the opposite just to prove the point.

In, in Kansas City, he went 0 for seven.

He did not have a hit.

He missed the second game.

Yeah

I really respect all three and what they did, and what's your thoughts on all three of them?

Yeah, you know, Bill, to be honest, one of the real – things I treasure about being in the Baseball Writers Association is for the past five or six years, I've gotten to vote for the Baseball Hall of Fame.

And it's an honor I don't take lightly.

And to me, Andrew Jones was a really, really tough call.

Because if you looked at his first 10 years, which I believe were basically all with Atlanta, maybe he His first 10 years, he's a Hall of Famer, no question.

All the gold gloves, the power he had.

But the last five years of his career really dipped.

I can't

... relationship with Dusty really started when he came over here, and he relied on Dusty to do a lot of different things to change and how his hitting approach changed, and, uh, I just love that.

Yeah, I, I, I'm not 100% sure I saw this, but I'm pretty sure that somebody asked Jeff, you know, "Who was the biggest influence on your career?" And he said Dusty Baker.

Um, and it, and it sort of makes sense.

I mean, Jeff had a decent Major League career before he got to the Giants, but he wasn't Jeff Kent until maybe his second or third year with the Giants.

Obviously being in the same lineup with Barry Bonds helps you a lot, a- and being in the same lineup with Ellis Burks and J.T.

Snow and those guys help you.

But J- Jeff did [chuckles] a, a lot of it obviously on his own.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, it, it's, to me it's a, it's a lot of times you gotta put the, the time, game score, inning in perspective.

There are times you don't necessarily want a, a Rafael Devers or a Willy Adames trying to hit the ball the other way.

There are times, you know, if they're ahead in the count, if you're ahead in the game, you want them maybe to try to lift and separate, where some other hitters you don't.

But in a close game, when they know they're getting pitched away, that's when they can be really effective going the other way.

Um, put it this way, there aren't too many left-handed hitters who can hit the ball out of the park where Rafael Devers hit it tonight, and there really aren't many right-handed hitters who can hit the ball not only to, to right field a- and get it over the fence, but he hit the ball over the fence by quite a bit tonight, and there really aren't a whole lot of right-handed hitters in the game who can hit the ball that far the other way, the way, uh, Adames did in the sixth inning.

Mm-hmm

...

He's taking the job, but it's just not working out.

Yeah, Bill, I don't mean to correct you.

According to the Giants' notes here, it says their eighth loss in which they've led in the ninth inning, and that eight losses in that fashion before the All-Star break are the most in Major League history.

No team has ever had nine blown losses, blown games before the All-Star, or excuse me, eight, I'm sorry, eight.

Eight ninth-inning leads lost before the All-Star break, and the All-Star game started in 1933, so that's a long time.

What do you think of that move?

Yeah, I mean, I go back and forth.

I mean, I thought last night just watching the game, I was not covering last night, I was just watching at home, that it was a little bit odd that Killian came in, but I guess he figured he was already up.

What do you think of that move?

Yeah.

I mean, I, I go back and forth.

I mean, I, I, I thought last night just watching the game, I was not covering last night, I was just watching at home, that it was a little bit odd that Killian came in.

But I guess he figured he was already up.

The, the problem with that though is once you use him, maybe you, he, maybe he's not as sharp, and he wasn't as sharp tonight.

I, I'll tell you a, a, um, a decision I questioned, and to be honest, my son Tom texted me this, uh, during, while it was happening, is Giants had the bases loaded, nobody out.

I thought the same thing

Mm-hmm

...

he was, he was...

I mean, you could...

If you had to pick a player of the game, you could pick Trevor McDonald, who was excellent in seven innings.

You could pick Eric, pick, pick Eric Miller, who got the final four outs and struck out Moniak with the tie in run, or the go-ahead run at, at second base in the, in the eighth.

But you could also pick Willie Adames.

Mm-hmm

That's what you have to look at when these trades are being made.

made.Right. And a thing, too, I've heard and we've discussed about, you know, the Giants obviously have not had a closer this season.

But I'm not necessarily so sure that, that closer is the spot that they need the most going forward because I mean, they, they haven't blown that many saves because they haven't had that many save opportunities.

So to me, getting a closer right now would almost be, I- I hate to use the word irrelevant, but somewhat irrelevant because you don't have enough closing opportunities.

I think you gotta fill the rest of the roster and then, you know, you hope maybe next year at this time you're, you're in a much better spot.

And then you find somebody, uh, from another team or within the organization to fill the closer role.

But right now, to me, the closer role, again, not necessarily irrelevant, but it's definitely lower on the, uh, importance I, I think for, for the Giants, uh, certainly for 2026.

Uh, what do you think about that?

That's what you have to look at when these trades are being made.

Right, and a thing too I've heard and we've discussed about, you know, the Giants obviously have not had a closer this season, but I'm not necessarily so sure that, that closer is the spot that they need the most going forward.

Because I mean, they, they haven't blown that many saves because they haven't had that many save opportunities.

So to me, getting a closer right now would almost be, I, I hate to use the word irrelevant, but somewhat irrelevant because you don't have enough closing opportunities.

I think you gotta fill the rest of the roster and then, you know, you hope maybe next year at this time you're, you're in a much better spot, and then you find somebody, uh, from another team or within the organization to fill the closer role.

But right now, to me, the closer role, again, not necessarily irrelevant, but it's definitely lower on the, uh, importance, I, I think for, for the Giants, uh, certainly for 2026.

Uh, what do you think about that?

Well, I, I agree with that.

Right

... have that, that extra responsibility of being the manager.

So in some sense, I think that does go to, um, what you're saying in terms of if you're calling every pitch you're throwing as opposed to letting the catcher, if the, the catcher calls 100% and you shake off, say, 10% to 20%, that, that you still got that 80% to 90% that you don't necessarily have to think.

You're letting somebody else think for you.

So that's kind of a long way of saying, yeah, I think there's probably a little to that, but I don't think Logan would use that as an excuse tonight.

[laughs]

"They've got an out.

Okay." And now he's throwing, and my first thought is he's gonna throw to the plate.

Right

... have that, that extra responsibility of being the manager? So in some sense, I think that does go to, um, what you're saying in terms of if you're calling every pitch you're throwing as opposed to letting the catcher...

If the, the catcher calls 100% and you shake off, say, 10% to 20%, that, that you still got that 80% to 90% that you don't necessarily have to think.

You're letting somebody else think for you.

So that's kind of a long way of saying y- I think there's probably a little to that, but I don't think Logan would use that as an excuse tonight.

[laughs]

"They've got an out.

Okay." And now he's throwing, and my first thought is, "He's gonna throw to the plate.

Right

... have that, that extra responsibility of being the manager.

So in some sense, I think that does go to, um, what you're saying in terms of if you're calling every pitch you're throwing, as opposed to letting the catcher, if the, the catcher calls 100% and you shake off, say, 10 to 20%, that, you still got that 80 to 90% that you don't necessarily have to think.

You're letting somebody else think for you.

So that's kind of a long way of saying, yeah, I think there's probably a little to that, but I don't think Logan would use that as an excuse tonight.

[laughs]

"They've got an out.

Okay." And now he's throwing, and my first thought is he's gonna throw to the plate.

Yeah

... good arm out, um, and but he made his name in college at San Diego State, and coming up through the Giants organization as a defensive player, particularly as a third baseman.

The [laughs] only problem for him is that the Giants have had Matt Chapman, who's, you know, one of the, the best third basemans of this generation.

I- if not the best.

But yeah, Casey Schmitt, he, y- you won't lose a ton with Casey Schmitt playing third base compared to Matt Chapman.

I, I don't think he's quite as good as Matt Chapman, but he's, you know...

Give him a few games there and he'll, he'll be fine.

Mm-hmm

Hmm

...

it started, uh, the, the previous year, Sacramento was just in need of a catcher.

I think a couple of guys got hurt or somebody had called up.

Anyway, and so he was close, even though he was in low San Jose, just the proximity, and he caught six games, and the, the coaching staff in Sacramento was so impressed with him that, uh, the coaching staff brought him up again late in the 2024 season.

And even last season, he started in San Jose and then went to, uh, High-A Eugene, and again, the River Cats called him up.

They, they really were impressed with his work behind the plate.

Mm

But I think you and I are both seeing the same guy, that we wanna see this guy throw more, and he's the guy that's gotta come in in that eighth and ninth inning to do exactly what he did tonight.

Yeah.

I mean, we all have, uh, somewhat selective and short memories.

But, you know, through most of April, the Giants bullpen actually was pretty good.

Um, and Eric Miller was one of the reasons why.

And then Eric Miller's dip was one of the reasons why the Giants bullpen hasn't been very good since the beginning of May.

If, if he can get back to the guy he was early in the season, the guy he was tonight, the guy he has been, you know, often over the past couple years, that certainly would, uh, put the bullpen in the right direction anyway.

Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm

... aren't necessarily sexy and things that people wanna discuss, but that's a lot of extra runners that the opponents are getting.

And even though the Giants', you know, batting average right now is actually pretty good, because they don't walk enough, that hampers their offense.

So, uh, not just with Landon Roop throwing a lot of pitches.

And even he had only two walks tonight, but as you mentioned, they were both leadoff walks.

Um, the, the walks both offensively and defensively have been a problem for pretty much, uh, 70 games, right?

[laughs]

Each individual game, if you can take it and kind of forget about the entire season, you can h- you, you can still enjoy Giants baseball or any team that's not doing well.

Are you kidding me? Where did this guy start learning how to hit like this? Well, I think this is the junk who

obviously, I mean, he's probably beyond what you could expect when the Giants signed him a couple of years ago.

But I think the type of hitting that he's doing now is the type of hitting the Giants expected line drives.

You know, he's not trying to to lift and separate to use the phrase and hit the ball out of the park, which he can do on occasion.

But that's not.

That's not why he's the grandson of the wind, right? He can put the ball in play and stretch it into a double, then put pressure on the defense when he's on the bases.

But the way he's hitting, I think, is the type of hitter the Giants and their fans expected when they signed him out of the Korean League a couple years ago.

But with Logan Webb being the first one out there, if he can throw similar to what he did in Milwaukee, we got the old Logan Webb back.

Are you kidding me? Where did this guy start learning how to hit like this? Well, I think this is the

– obviously, I mean, he's probably beyond what you could expect when the Giants signed him a couple years ago.

But I think the type of hitting that he's doing now is the type of hitting the Giants expected, line drives.

You know, he's not trying to lift and separate, to use the phrase, and hit the ball out of the park, which he can do on occasion, but that's not – That's not why he's the grandson of the wind, right? He's the grandson of the wind because he can put the ball in play and stretch it into a double, then put pressure on the defense when he's on the bases.

But the way he's hitting, I think, is the type of hitter the Giants and their fans expected when they signed him out of the Korean League a couple years ago.

But with Logan Webb being the first one out there, if he can throw similar to what he did in Milwaukee, we got the old Logan Webb back.

Yeah, and, you know, two lefties after Mikolas for the Nats with Alvarez and then Griffin.

And then maybe we will see Jonah Cox in the lineup on Tuesday and or Wednesday.