And how many agents do you have and how do you use them?

Yeah, so it's kind of funny, and I'll talk about the product, and I'll talk about how I use agents personally as well, because I think they're two different conversations.

The product itself is hundreds of agents.

Agents operate best when they have a very defined task that you can work around and debug and iterate and reiterate.

And so it's so funny, there's a big difference between communication to your customer of like, there's the marketing jargon and then the actual what reality is, I think, in AI and it's happening across the board.

It's to the customer, it looks like one continuous agent, right? It's Zig.

But behind the scenes, it's swarms, it's hundreds that are handling these tasks and doing handoffs and there's orchestration.

Are they working on the same thing? Are they duplicating work? Are they having an iterative recursive conversation amongst themselves and just burning tokens and not actually producing anything good? How do you make sure agents are doing what they're supposed to be doing and not going off the reservation?

And so tell me about a time since launching Zig where you've been dragged into a room and told Steve you did it wrong.

Anytime I talk to you.

Anytime I talk to you, not on camera.

There's a lot of times, right, where it's like, and I don't think it's so much like you're doing it wrong.

I think the message that is across is you're looking at it from your perception, right? and you need to look at it from perspective right um so it's done more to give kind of a different lens as to like well you can do this but here's all of the that you're gonna have to deal with on the back end and is that something you want to deal with or here's the sacrifices you're gonna have to make are those the right sacrifices and then little by little through those conversations you start having that second voice in your head anyway where you're like You know, now I'm now I've become the voice of reason in rooms with product engineering of like, OK, if we do this, what's our sacrifice? And they tell me the sacrifice.

And I'm like, no, it's a shit sacrifice.

We're not going to make that sacrifice.

I wonder if you could help explain to listeners thinking about founding a company, what does that pain feel like? Give, give me an example of some pain where you've been like, Oh shit, why the hell am I doing this?