Stephen Wertheim

Right.

There was a good report from the Carnegie Endowment actually a few years ago, led by Stephen Wertheim and Chris Chivas and some other people whose names I'm forgetting.

But but it looked at, you know, this question of.

when have we actually seen significant change in U.S. foreign policy? And it's basically just when there's a giant war or crisis or something that shakes the country to its core in a very acute way, right? You know, not just that we're having a...

And right now the notion, which is you can't do a deal with them, or you could do a deal with them b- uh, in which they're gonna surrender what they hold most critical, most dear, j-- if you just pressure them more.

I ask my American colleagues, I say, "Put yourself in their position.

Would we be prepared to surrender because we were asphyxiated, uh, economically?" Surrender again as, as, you know, a people, as a leadership.

In the case of Iran, as the leadership, would they be prepared to surrender what they believe is critical for their survival as a leadership for the sake of avoiding more pressure, more military strikes or more economic, um, uh, uh, uh, sanctions? And the answer is no, which is why we are in the mess we're in today.