But I suppose with big organizations, with big systems, big processes, is it truly able to do the work?

Oh, what a brilliant question.

And I think you're right because the years of lecturing and learned you need to have criticality, not criticized, but a critical thinking mind of looking, are we really managing the width? And I think if we're honest, some services are.

It's tokenistic and some are on a really meaningful journey.

What I would say when we check in with everyone at the end of the training is I don't, there's rarely anyone not enthused about crying to make ripples.

And beautiful ideas that they've, for example, another one, because they, it was another area that really wanted to deeply embed their reunification practice and children going home to families.

And they said, with Children Care, we have life appreciation days, lots of events happening.

that my next question is really is how did you get into this how did you end up where you are what