Smart beta

But I think to bring us back, Alec, Chris, ETFs.

Commonly in South Africa, we think about an ETF as a passive investment, right? So let's just, I think from our point of view, we split up, call it passive or index tracking, okay? Then you have actively managed ETFs and smart beta solutions.

So I think the key thing where I would like you to start is, what do we normally expect from an ETF, starting point? And then take us, let's go all...

at the end of the spectrum, actively managed ETF, and then we can speak about smart beta solutions.

Sure.

So I think when most people talk, say I'm invested in the ETF, they think of a simple market cap weighted ETF.

Yeah, exactly.

So you went from call it a passive ETF to actively managed ETF.

At the time, a lot of people didn't like the fact that we were calling something an index that wasn't market cap weighted, but it was rules-based, it was very transparent, so it's passive-like, but it did offer the potential of outperformance.

And at the time, it was something that became very popular and spurred the entire growth of what we see today in terms of non-price weighted index strategies, often called smart beta or factor strategies or, or things like that.

I wanted to talk a little about some similarities we're seeing today, because if you look at where we are to- in today's market, you're starting to see an in- or you're seeing a, a passive index that is as concentrated as what we're seeing at the height of the tech bubble, and in some ways it's more concentrated.

If you look at the S&P 500 today, there's seven names that make up almost 35% of the index, and those seven names have a, a, a aggregate market cap that is larger than all of the publicly traded companies in Europe, for example.

The concept of contrarian rebalancing.

And then there is the technology that was deployed 20 years ago using an index to deliver that strategy to the marketplace.

So it really is two things, right? When we talk about smart beta, and I want you to define smart beta and factor investing in civilian terms, but it's really the intersection of two things.

It's the...