You're listening to the podcast of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville, Tennessee.

Let's pray together.

Our Heavenly Father, we thank you for your word.

We thank you for Jesus Christ, its true interpreter and preacher.

We pray that together we may be like those on the Emmaus Road who found that as he spoke with them, their hearts burned within them with love and faith and joy.

So, Lord Jesus, come to us through your word and by the power of your Holy Spirit and mark our lives with its truth and power and grace, because we pray this in your name.

Amen.

To find out more about who we are and what we believe,

Well, let's turn in our Bibles to Paul's second letter to Timothy, chapter 4, beginning to read at verse 6.

And you'll find the passage on page 996 of the church Bible, or if you're using a large print version, 1183.

And we're coming to the sixth and last of this short series of sermons on 2 Timothy.

And these are the final recorded words that we have from the Apostle Paul as he appeals to Timothy in verse six.

I am already being poured out as a drink offering and the time of my departure has come.

I have fought the good fight.

And so I think we're

Welcome to the Trinity Church Aberdeen podcast where you can listen to our most recent sermons.

Now as we continue this short series in Paul's second letter to Timothy, we're turning to 2 Timothy chapter 3, page 996 in the church Bible, 1182 if you're using large print version, and our passage begins in chapter 3.

I think we'll read in from verse 10.

Paul has been describing the difficult days, days of stress that Timothy is being called to minister in.

And now he turns his attention to giving Timothy last instructions.

You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra, which persecutions I endured, yet from them all the Lord rescued me.

Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

How do you think he would sort of assess the state of theological education in the English-speaking world, and thinking maybe specifically of, of confessional institutions, um, uh, or, and/or the state of confessional Presbyterian churches today? Do you think he would be surprised at the issues that we're dealing with? Would he, would he be comforted with the, the sort of the state of theology and, and piety in the pastorate? What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm a very good judge of that, Nate.

Um, I think, I think piety was a very important thing to him.

Uh, you remember how Calvin says that the Institutes is really a kind of sum of piety, and I think that summarized the way in which, uh, Professor Murray approached the task of being a theologian and giving theological instruction.

And, uh, my guess is that most people who heard him speak were struck by not only the weight of what he said, but also the spirit in which he said it.

And so, um, you know, when I think of the times I heard, I personally heard him, um, there was not only...

I mean, in a, in a way he exemplified in the best Christian sense Aristotle's triad of, of logos, ethos, and pathos.

... sort of the same man as Murray or, or, or Gaffin.

So.

Um, I, I think I've been helped personally by what Paul says to Timothy in second Timothy one, is it verse seven or verse eight, when he says, "Stir up the gift that is in you." And he relates that to the laying on of his hands, which he then elsewhere relates to the laying on of the hands of the presbytery, I take it.

And I've always thought there are three elements there.

There is the gift that's in him, which comes from the Lord.

There is the desire to stir it up, which I think you can relate to him saying, "If anyone aspires to the office of an elder bishop," uh, he aspires to a good work.

Um, and, and then there is this, whatever is the equivalent of the laying on of hands of the presbytery, which I think is at least, de- depending on our polity, is at least the recognition of the church that the Lord has given an individual a gift, and the church wants to make space for its exercise.

How these three elements fit together would be as varied in our lives as anything else in our lives.

So maybe as a church, you can encourage the minister to have time and take time to spend with other ministers, uh, for encouragement.

And, um, so that was an important picture, uh, uh, an important emphasis that Calvin wanted to have.

Um, this touches me deeply because when I sat my theology finals, one of the questions was, uh, discuss Calvin's view of the Sursum Corda, the lift up your hearts.

And it was, it was really basic to his thinking, and part of the reason why he had such reservations about Luther, never mind Rome, was because he felt that was bringing Christ down.

But Christ has once and for all ascended to the right hand of the Father, so that if we are to have fellowship with Him, that can only take place if the Holy Spirit bridges the gap between heaven and earth.

And this is why I think for him, the ministry of the Holy Spirit was important in terms of general application of redemption, but was also really significant when we came to the Lord's table, that by the Spirit, we're being lifted up into the presence of Jesus, and we are communing with his real flesh and blood, because there isn't any other Jesus than the Jesus who dwells at the right hand of the Father in his exalted humanity.

And so we, we really are embraced by Him in his humanity for our salvation.

And so, uh, you find that actually then even going...

So take a moment and come on up, pastors and elders.

Dr. Ferguson, how do you respond to someone who says they don't need to attend Sunday worship services because their small group is a church?

Well, [sighs] you know, I tend to take a kind of softly, softly approach to statements which I think are in great error.

First of all, to see what is the person really thinking and saying.

And usually, if I think what someone says is in error, there's usually what I would call a paradigm behind that, that it's, it's not just about this that they're thinking wrongly.

It's about many things that they're thinking wrongly.

So I think I would probably say, first of all, "What do you mean by church?" And that would be a kind of like a physician's diagnostic question to try to make a connection between what they are saying, which is a disease, it is a symptom, it's pathological, and I want to know from what has it arisen.

And if they begin to speak and tell me what they think a church is, I think the simplest thing then to do is to say, and you want to hold onto them so you can help them, is to say, in essence, "You know, that's not actually what the New Testament means by church." To say, [laughs] to say to them, as Nehemiah says, you remember, to Sanballat and Tobiah, "You're making this up out of your own head.