Shift work

Do you recommend those before people go to bed?

Yeah, so melatonin is an interesting one.

If you're a shift worker and take it during the daytime, it can be effective.

It can increase sleep by 30 minutes, by 60 minutes.

Double blind placebo controlled trials of melatonin show that it doesn't do very much when you take it at night.

they don't understand and they haven't experienced it they really don't know how to explain it otherwise they just follow their little guidelines

well i i use an example said see what you think about this then right i said if you take a hard-working valued at work individual and i said for shift work for example police officers in the in the us in australia here in the uk used to do something called quick changeover which used to be like i think was like eight hours between first shift and the second shift so in other words you're doing 16 fucking hours in a 24 hour day and the idea that you're supposed to be super duper and able to be a proper police officer on the second shift when you'll still be fucking tired made no sense to me no sense whatsoever certain shift work certain work rotations If I could take someone, say, for example, yourself, and say he's a really highly valued employee at work, but let's work him into the fucking ground, no good whatsoever.

On the other hand, if I can go, this plate's T levels are a bit down, he's not quite the shining star that he used to be, let's just give him a little bit of testosterone to make him feel better, and he comes back to work and he's suddenly got the most sales in the company, you're running around, you're managing things better just because of a little bit of a hormonal change.

And it seems, not always perfectly, better... or more understood in the way that you feel direction for women with HRT than it does for what we call a testopause TRT for men and you're a good example you said earlier on I think something to the thing how much better you felt when you're on it so it's a damn shame again for all the listeners that the trying to get we'd love to have the doctors help us in this way we want them to to do scripted testosterone so that we can be better at work better husbands better with our kids and so on and so forth but god you know you end up doing it all your fucking self and even what you said earlier on the idea of me taking 400 to 800 milligrams a day for three fucking days just so i can get around all these things that's hard fucking work i'm not yeah so talk about it for yourself from your experience your your view of it and even if you don't talk about yourself maybe the older gentleman that's in your shoes

I want to ask you, and this is an important subject for all ages listening to this show.

Something we see again and again.

In fact, just recently, someone yesterday talked about their shift work, and they said, I'm going to be back to four hours sleep a night because I'm on four days of night shifts.

And I was like, fucking four hours.

So reading or listening is much better than the context switching and the scrolling.

For those who already struggle with insomnia or poor sleep or people who are on shift work, Tom, could the clock change make things worse and what would you recommend?

So, I mean, look, the shift workers need special attention and support.

Plan your sleep in cycles of 90 minutes because that's how sleep works.

Learn how to nap.

You know, start to utilize naps.

Don't try not to build up too much what we call sleep debt.

That's really important for the shift workers.

I jumped off this fence and normally I've done it a thousand times, but I just, my knee landed strangely this time.

Unfortunately, with shift work and the fatigue it carries, a lot of these officers already start behind the eight ball in terms of their, their coordination starting to deteriorate.

So we always talk about aerobic fitness being a key thing that can help here and help combat that onset of fatigue.

We want these guys to be fit so that if they do get these breaks between shifts or efforts, they're able to recover quickly.

You mentioned earlier that you spent some time in the injury management space and also now rehabbing tactical athletes.

What are some of the most common injuries you see in this environment?

yeah a lot of overuse injuries so a lot of tendinopathies a lot of things that start as a little bit of a niggle they think it'll get better or it's just sub-maximal repetitive loading couple that with shift work subpar recovery it's not a great recipe But cops are pretty tough individuals and they grind through a lot of pains and a lot of people will come to us and they might be on their full operational duties, but everyone's got a little bit of a niggle or they've got something that they're dealing with and they're trying to address while still maintaining that operational status, which is great.

The other end is the contact injuries we see.

I know you'll have always heard someone say, I used to sleep well, but now I've got to get up at 4 o'clock in the morning and go to the loo or something.

Or, you know, you've developed a bad sleep habit or you haven't got the right proper sleep schedule if you do shift work or have children that keep you up or maybe a partner who gets up at all hours of the morning or just has an earlier start than you.

So we're going to have a chat about getting a good night's sleep but also discussing some of the myths or some of the cliches around getting a good night's sleep.

And how do you get the best rest for your body? How important is good sleep? And can you catch up? Oh, look, the questions are endless, aren't they? And to discuss it, we have from the Sleep Well Clinic, it is Dr.

It's over 100,000 accumulated numbers during the week.

It's massive.

Mind you, I mean, how many people do nine to five compared to shift work? I always assumed just most people did nine to five jobs, but

at least 20% of people are working non-normal hours, working shift work.

We're gonna talk about how he went from being obese to changing his life around, and really saving his life.

And then we're gonna talk about his secrets with nutrition and d- and training, and we're gonna talk about also his shift work, because he has one of those jobs which are really, really, really hard.

These shift jobs that make it so hard for you to function, and he's gonna talk about his secrets to getting through that.

It's gonna be a great episode.

Yeah

... we've got a couple of examples on the forum of this.

People do shift work, couple of them who are nurses as well, which can be fucking long shifts, and back to back shifts and stuff.

Yeah.

And that begins to change how we process information, regulate our emotions, assess risks, communicate and make decisions.

And that's a challenge for a lot of us, especially if you're working shift work.

Right.

And I think that sometimes we don't even recognize how tired or exhausted we truly are because we've been taught and trained to push through.

But our episode today is running on empty, which is so appropriate, shift work and the decisions that we make.

And joining me, and let me tell you what, this is when we talk about getting the gold pot at the end of the rainbow because this was a thing here.

Dr. Lois James, she is joining us and she's a professor at the Ph.D. program director at Washington State University College of Nursing.

So NASA had that right.

folks who aren't doing that who are in this field and yeah they're getting out of the car the worst thing like if i was thinking what would be the worst thing obviously there's some pretty bad things but it's like if i'm going to chase after somebody and i blow my acl because i haven't done a lateral step at high speed since i played high school sports like that kind of stuff is what i think about where it's like if you're a tactical athlete you have to put all these systems in place so you are exposed to that and i think recovery is the big one especially when i work with these folks who are on the third shift They're like, man, everything's all messed up, and they kind of just settle with that.

Like, oh, I'm working shift work, and so everything's just out the window.

It's like, no, we have to figure out with that horror.

It's a sucky schedule.

I just want to give you a scenario.

You've recognised that your shift workers need support.

You've found some budget and you've brought someone in to educate your workforce.

Tick.

Whether you're a shift worker trying to feel better or a leader responsible for the people who keep your organisation running around the clock, you're in the right place.

Welcome to A Healthy Shift.

I'm Roger Sutherland, and after more than four decades of working 24-7 shifts with Victoria Police, followed by years of studying nutrition, circadian biology, human performance, and working with literally thousands of shift workers, I've made it my mission to change the conversation around shift work because healthier people create stronger teams and stronger teams build better organizations.

And it all starts by understanding how to work with your biology and not against it.