You're like,

yeah.

So everybody looks at him, of course, and then everybody looks at me.

I freeze.

I couldn't say a word.

Luckily, I froze long enough that everybody looked back at him, and then he went on.

Because we know what he was mad about.

But give me a specific example, okay, of the time when you had to walk around the block in one direction and she had to go around the block in the other direction, right? And hold on, but the feedback that she gave you helped make this book even better than it is today.

What led you to realizing that specifically, that sort of middle space between what the company can do organizationally and what individuals can do personally to really focus on the manager and how he or she can set up the conditions for the team?

I remember first feeling this, we've all felt it.

So I'm sure everybody will be able to relate with this, but you know how it is when you, I love personal productivity books.

I buy them, I'd read them.

I try to implement those ideas.

And I would, you have this experience where you're trying to build out the most productive way of operating and you see all of your great plans go up in smoke the moment that you you know, come in contact with your team and especially your clients and especially your boss, you know, who was it that said that all great strategies are like a good idea until they come in conflict until they meet the enemy or something like this.

Like, you know what I mean? Like the great, and then those, but that's the same way to your boss, man, you, you, you come up with your plans and then you're excited and you're trying to do your little habit stacking or whatever it is that you're trying to implement.

And with that being the case, why do you feel like so many leaders still default to short-term firefighting or more short-term focus and goals than thinking a little more long-term and strategically?

What were you find-

Well, what, what we were hearing over and over and over again-- I'll t- I'll start with this story.

I was teaching this workshop and it was in, it was in San Jose.

We've got around a couple hundred people in the room.

It's the chief marke- marketing officers group.

And at this part in this workshop that you wouldn't expect somebody from the audience to do this, this gentleman, let's call him Jeff, stands up in the middle of the room.

And we, we were talking about ways that sometimes as leaders, we pass on busyness to our teams, uh, unintentionally, but we just-- We, we've got so much on, so much pressure.

What are some of the results people are starting to see, or that you saw in your research, that they were already doing this kind of work? Pausing.

Yeah, like, what are you gonna do, Mr. Facilitator? [laughs]

Yeah, what are you gonna do here? And I didn't know what to do.

I just froze.

And in that space of silence, he then went further and said, "Look, I really value focus.

I value deep work.

But in this culture, I struggle to not pass so many items onto my team and then try to focus on going fast, so fast that I realize I am distracting my team.

I'm stealing all of their space to do deep work, and I'm just so frustrated with it." A line that he used was, "I feel like we're addicted to speed.

What about this concept of inviting dissent that you talk about? Why do so many leaders accidentally shut this down or not do this well?