So broadly speaking, where are we as a nation right now in terms of the story of education choice? What's going well? What are the challenges? Just give us a diagnosis of the issue, broadly speaking.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I, I love that you brought some of your own personal experience into this, because I think that's really important.

When I speak with lawmakers, one of the things that I tell them is that I am also a parent.

I'm a father, I've got three daughters.

And if you have been around more than one child, then you know that no two children are exactly alike, right? It doesn't...

You don't need to be a teacher to know this, or a principal, what have you.

Tell us what should happen.

What was the state in the early 20th century of school choice? In particular, I'm thinking about those Supreme Court cases.

Yeah, the state of play around the, the turn of the century, a lot of it was informed by the flood of, um, European and mostly Catholic immigrants that, that the United States was receiving, and there was a tremendous anti-Catholic sentiment in the country at the time.

Sort of, uh, f- people are f- familiar with the Know Nothing movement.

They're familiar, may be familiar with a, a guy who eventually, um, ends up in federal elected position named James Blaine.

And so what are called the, the so-called Blaine amendments were laws mostly at the state level, though they did try to pass it at the federal level and it never did, but these were mostly amendments to state constitutions that would prohibit, they sought to prohibit, um, uh, government dollars or public dollars from going to, towards religious education.

This was not really done as, uh, a, as a way to have, say, separation of church and state.

It was really a particular church, right? This was really a way to, um, separate sort of state and Rome and the Roman Catholic Church.

Um, what are you seeing now in, in, in our c- in our time, especially post-COVID? What does the educational choice movement look like today?